The rapture theory is not Biblical and was founded as an Anti-Reformation tool of the Catholic Church. The purpose of the rapture theory was to destroy the reformation or control protestantism, recapture the Holy Land and establish the New Word Order. This theory is one of the prince of darkness greatest deceptions.
Barbara Rossing said in her book The Rapture Racket,
” the Rapture is a fraud of monumental proportions, as well as a disturbing way to instill fear in people.
“Whether prescribing a violent script for Israel or survivalism in the United States, this theology distorts God’s vision for the world,” Rossing writes. “In place of healing, the Rapture proclaims escape. In place of Jesus’s blessing of peacemaking, the Rapture voyeuristically glorifies violence and war …. This theology is not biblical. We are not Raptured off the earth, nor is God.
Where did the rapture theory originate and why? Reformers such as Luther, Calvin, Huss, Zwingli, Melanchthon, Bullinger and others had identified the Catholic Church as Mystery Babylon in Revelation and the Popes as the Anti-Christ. Millions of sincere Catholics were leaving the mother church and joining the reformation movement.. The church set out to neutralize and destroy the protestant movement.. What they could not do through brute force and the military inquisitions they did through political espionage, spiritual intrigue, and using mind control techniques by secret societies. Most of the books published on the rapture are brainwashing the readers mind. All of the books written by Tim Lahaye’s, John Hagee’s, Jack van Impe, Jerry Jenkins , John Walvoord and movies such as the Omega Code and Megiddo are design for mind control. This anti-protestant doctrine is taught in many universities and seminaries such as Dallas Theological Seminary, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Southwestern Assemblies of God, Zion Bible College, Moody Bible Institute, Global University, Liberty and Regent University and well as a host of other leading colleges and universities The rapture cult has the largest following than any cult in the US or Europe. Why were sincere Catholics, priests and monks leaving the Catholic Church.? People were leaving because of corruptions in the church. If one look at the Babylonian sun worship, and the present Roman Catholic Mass there are many similarities. Baal worship seem to have taken over the Catholic Church. The icon of the virgin mother and child with halos (representing the sun), Mary as the queen of heaven, (Isis – queen of heaven) confessionals, wafer worship, transubstantiation, and priests as exclusive mediators of God were all derived from the Satanic Babylonian religion. Roman Catholicism became a mixture of witchcraft, Judaism, paganism, and perverted Christianity. When this corruptions was exposed by the reformers, Rome was outraged, and staged Holy Inquisitions, design to rid the world of heretics. The Inquisition included torturing and murdering people who didn’t not agree with the Catholic views. Ten of thousands of people were killed and some historians even put the numbers in the millions. Later, in response to the Vatican’s oppressive dogma, Martin Luther, a former Augustinian monk, nailed his 95 theses to the wall of a church in Germany, heralding Protestantism. . The Vatican was shaken as Protestantism spreads rapidly through Europe. In order to stamp out the spiritual rebellion, Pope Paul III ordered Ignatius de Loyola to found the Order of Jesuits, which would act as the intelligentsia and secret militia of the Vatican. Loyola had already founded the occult Illuminati, which he then placed under the umbrella of the Vatican ” Ignatius a Merovingian Jew from Loyola Spain was a member of the Alumbrados before he founded the Illuminati and the Jesuits. The Merovingian Jews claim to be decedents of Jesus and Mary of Magdalene. Thus you have books and movies like DaVinci Code, Prieure de Sion, Passover Plot, Holy Blood Holy Grail, Bloodline of the Holy Grail, being produced and circulated by Hollywood Kabbalist movie studios and publishing houses controlled by the Illuminati. These books are blasphemous teachings design to nullify the true Gospel of Jesus. Many of the Popes, Cardinals, Bishops and Priest were Merovingian Jews whose agenda was to destroy true Christianity and pervert the true gospel.
The Jesuits Oath:
“I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants’ heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus.”It was when Pope Paul III convened the Council of Trent that the church formally addressed the protestant reformation with edicts, dogmas and doctrines. A disciple of Ignatius, Francisco Ribera came up with a theory that would take the attention off the Pope as being the Anti-Christ and put it on some future individual. This was the beginning of the Rapture doctrine. The Jesuits infiltrated the protestant movement, developed protestant theology, and purposely mis interpreted scriptures relating to Bible prophecy. They also controlled the educational system and bribe and blackmailed governments of Europe and America to promote their agenda. Two other groups that were instrumental the origin and development of the rapture theory were the Knights Templars (Masons) and the Knights of Malta (Knights of Columbus). Barbara Aho said in her article (The Merovingian Dynasty) “it was also the The avowed objective of the Templars was to protect the Christians who came to visit the Holy Places: their secret objective was the re-building of the Temple of Solomon on the model prophesied by Ezekiel. “This re-building, formally predicted by the Judaizing Mystics of the earlier ages, had become the secret dream of the Patriarchs of the Orient. The Temple of Solomon, re-built and consecrated to the Catholic worship would become, in effect, the Metropolis of the Universe.” In my up coming blog I will go into more detail about how the Jesuits and the Illuminati set about to implement the Rapture theory to achieve their goal.. Protestant churches, Evangelical seminaries, and bible talking and Bibleprobe preachers like Hagee, Impe, TD Jakes, Hagin,Copeland,Pat Robinson, C.Dollar, C.Blake, Billy Graham, and masons who promote the rapture have been seduced by Jesuits theology and manipulated by the kabalist practitioners, thus they are part of the world-wide Anti-Christ conspiracy. If you are reading this document, I strongly suggest you print it out, send it to your friends and family members, because it would be taken off this web site by the workers of the prince of darkness. May the Spirit of God lead you into all truth. God Bless.
Rothschild’s Israel Massacre Over 225 Men, Women and Children in Gaza – Bush Support Massacre and Blame Victims – Obama Kept in Dark
ISRAEL LAUNCHES AIRSTRIKES ON GAZA
AP: ‘UNPRECEDENTED WAVES’ OF ATTACKS… OVER 200 DEAD, 250 INJURED… AIRSTRIKES IN RESPONSE TO RECENT ROCKET FIRE
Missiles hit security compounds and militant bases across Gaza. Israel said the operation would go on “as long as necessary”.
Play VideoMideast Video: Scores die in Israeli air strikes BBC
Hawaii Island Where Obama Is Vacationing Loses Power
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Hitler Grandfather was Amscel Mayer Rothschild
Hitler Grandfather was Amscel Mayer Rothschild
Euro-Asian Kharzarians convert to Judaism – becomes modern Jews – not Shemetic
Illuminati and the Charismatic Movement
- Illuminati and the Jewish leadership found Cyrus Scofield to deceive Christians
- Investigation of Jewish Masonic influence and agenda for world control
- The Rapture Cult – Its Power and Worldwide Influence – False Teachers Write – The Third Jerusalem Temple – The Rapture, Dome and The Rock of Ages
Rothschild’s ISRAELI Supreme Justice Building is an occult Masonic shrine – NWO
author: Jerry Golden
| israel was not founded as a jewish state, it’s founded as occult state… |
1 – The Israeli Supreme Court in Jerusalem. |
2 – Invert Cross: the only cross here, & you trample on it, w/ Muslim gravesite |
3 – Only Obelisk, in Rothschild’s garden |
4 – Bit of Far East symbolism placed here |
5 – Rothschild’s sign, pointing to the only Egyptian obelisk |
6 – Rothschild’s emblem, pointing to the only Egyptian obelisk |
7 – After passing through security, first thing you will notice: Rothschilds |
8 – “Darkness to Light”: Masonic 10 steps x 3 = 30 steps…& get this…(to #13) |
9- view; top of 30 stairs,the ‘light’ of Jerusalem connects with ancient areas |
10- map of occult laylines in Israeli capital buildings extending into city… |
11-…soldered into stone architecture, & metal lines trace BETWEEN buildings |
12- ley-line runs up the center of eye-pyramid seen through window |
13- ..library, 3 other tiers: topmost PRIVATE,ex-judges only,looks up at pyramid |
14- numerology squares directly below eye-pyramid view in open space below |
15- courtrooms shaped as ancient Jewish tombs, you enter them, missing keystones |
16- Jewish Miskan design brought to plan,eye-pyramid as holy of holies in temple |
17- courtyard brings stone from world’s largest natural crater |
18- going down other ’symbolic’ stairs,feminine Gnostic ‘womb’ fertility symbol? |
ADDED: Washington DC’s 33rd degree temple, downtown |
ADDED: Masonic Structure |
ISRAEL WAS NOT FOUNDED AS A JEWISH STATE, IT’S FOUNDED AS OCCULT STATE (like the U.S.): This report will shock and upset some; it is one I have put off for over 4 years. After struggling with it I have decided now is the time to write it. Knowing it could be misunderstood as anti-Semitic. God forbid that I a Jew should ever say or do anything that would be remotely considered as such, but I must admit this report does not come easy for me. The fact still remains that an evil force has been put into place in Jerusalem and has spread throughout Israel,…This report will prove that such a move is underway and has been for quiet some time……the architectural design of the New Israeli Supreme Court Building designed and paid for by Rothchilds reflects instead only the presence of Free Masonry & Illuminati architecturally. The Engineers who were chosen for this job by the Rothschilds were grandson & granddaughter of Ben-Zion Guine from Turkey who worked for Baron Rothschild, Ram Kurmi, born in Jerusalem in 1931, and Ada Karmi-Melanede born in Tel-Aviv in 1936. For those who can make something out of the numbers: important to builders to have everything done according to correct numbers: were 1,000 sheets of plans, 1,200 cement posts; worked on building for 3 years or 750 days; 20 workers each day, for 200,000 workdays; 250,000 building stones, each hand placed. Rothschilds made many stipulations with Israeli Government before the building began, among them: Rothschilds would pick the plot of land to align & build Supreme Court; Rothschilds would use their own architects; & no one would ever know how much the building cost. It took four years to build a structure with many secrets built into it. This is where our journey begins as we begin to enter into the building, for this entire journey is intended to bring one from darkness into the light, become an Illuminated one, destroy Christianity and Islam through trampling/mocking their symbols, introduce Hindu, Far Eastern, & Egyptian symbolism, & be a daily reminder of occult power in Israel for those in the know as they move Jews and Muslims like chess pawns against each other, toward a designed Middle Eastern WWIII.
Lady Lynn Forrester, Wife of Illuminati Leader Sir Evelyn Robert Adrian de Rothschild Endorse McCain – McCain Lied About His Divorce and Remarriage –
September 11, 2001- The Day That Will Live In Infamy – 911- Photos – 7 years Later
Bush a Closet Catholic In the White House…Rick Santorum, former U.S. senator from Pennsylvania and a devout Catholic, who was the first to give Bush the “Catholic president” label. “He’s certainly much more Catholic than (Ted)Kennedy.”
The Illuminati and the New World Order
Clinton dead-ender Lynn Forrester de Rothschild today takes to the Wall Street Journalto attack Barack Obama as an elitist. Forrester trots out the usual GOP/old Clintonite talking points — “his current campaign is based mainly on an assumption of his transcendence,” Greek columns, fake presidential seal, with no acknowledgement that Obama is giving meaty speeches filled with programmatic solutions keyed to middle-class and working-class voters.
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rothschild-founders.jpg“Elitism,” Forrester assures us, “is a state of mind, a view of the world that cannot be measured simply by one’s net worth, position or number of houses.” That definition conveniently excludes Forrester, a millionaire businesswoman who became a billionaire socialite when she married into the Rothschild banking fortune. (Lloyd Grove has calledher the “flashiest hostess in London,” a position which I’m sure she attained due to her close touch with working-class mores.)
illuminati families secret society freemasonry conspiracy theory biblical prophecy masonic …Illuminati. Illuminati NWO. Freemason Illuminati. Rothschild …
THE HOUSE OF ROTHSCHILD FINAL WARNING
And I said, Hear, I pray you, O heads of Jacob, and ye princes of the house of Israel; Is it not for you to know judgment? Who hate the good, and love the evil; who pluck off their skin from off them, and their flesh from off their bones; Who also eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off them; and they break their bones, and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the caldron. Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings. Thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that make my people err, that bite with their teeth, and cry, Peace; and he that putteth not into their mouths, they even prepare war against him. Therefore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not have a vision; and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine; and the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them. Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the diviners confounded: yea, they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer of God. But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin. Hear this, I pray you, ye heads of the house of Jacob, and princes of the house of Israel, that abhor judgment, and pervert all equity. They build up Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity. The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, Is not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us. Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest. –Micah 3
The following two images are taken from the Congressional Record of the United States of America, 76th Congress, Third Session, dated April 19, 1940.
In the late 1930s, the British Israel World Federation Movement’s Destiny Magazine published articles identifying September 2001 as the target date for beginning their planned global state – a “Kingdom of Heaven on Earth.” Click on the thumbnails for full-size images.
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Israeli Supreme Court Building
From the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 until the dedication of the new Supreme Court building in 1992, the Supreme Court of Israel was housed in a rented building in Jerusalem’s Russian Compound, originally built as a hostel for Russian Orthodox pilgrims visiting Jerusalem. In 1984, the Rothschild Foundation (Yad Hanadiv) made a formal offer to the Government of Israel to donate a permanent building for the Supreme Court. The offer was gratefully accepted and an architectural competition was held in 1986. The winners, from Israel, were the brother-and-sister team of Ram Karmi and Ada Karmi Melamede from Tel Aviv. The new Supreme Court building was dedicated on November 10, 1992.
The Supreme Court is accessible from several directions. From the south the Knesset passageway leads through the Wohl Rose Garden and connects the Knesset, the legislative branch of government, with the Supreme Court building, the judicial branch. From the north, a pedestrian bridge connects the Central Bus Station to the Supreme Court building. Between them stands the executive branch of government, which consists of various ministries, including the Office of the Prime Minister. From the west, the Dorothy de Rothschild Promenade joins the main thoroughfare with the Supreme Court building. From the east, a footpath through Sacher Park leads to the building.
Leaving the center courtroom are you find a set of stairs leading downstairs. At the base of these stairs you can see the symbol of the fertility goddess hidden in plain view. Outside the building is a staircase which descends into an inverted cross – continuously trampled underfoot. Hindu altars and even an Egyptian obelisk decorate the landscape.
False Prophetic Writter JOEL C. ROSENBERG: CNN ASKS: “ARE THESE THE END TIMES?”: Interview …
Bush a Closet Catholic In the White House…Rick Santorum, former U.S. senator from Pennsylvania and a devout Catholic, who was the first to give Bush the “Catholic president” label. “He’s certainly much more Catholic than (Ted)Kennedy.”
Bush has also placed Catholics in prominent roles in the federal government and relied on Catholic tradition to make a public case for everything from his faith-based initiative to antiabortion legislation. He has wedded Catholic intellectualism with evangelical political savvy to forge a powerful electoral coalition.
The Pope Kissing The Qu’ran
YouTube – False Apostles, and Prophets – and Antichrists
(1) Amazing Prophecy | First Beast of Revelation 13!
Prophecy of the Century II(2) USA in Bible prophecy | Second Beast of Revelation
The Impact of Christian Zionism on American Policy and World Policy
Christian Zionists do not accept the statements of Christ and other early Christian leaders that criticize Old Testament practices. ( an Anti-Christ Doctrine) Instead, they project Old Testament practices and prophesies into today’s world. Consequently, they revere the Jews as God’s chosen people with a divine right to all lands promised the Jews in the Old Testament. The territory of Greater Israel, the entire city of Jerusalem, and a rebuilt temple have become the chief objects of Christian Zionist attention. The rebuilt temple would require the installation of the ancient priesthood and resumption of practices such as animal sacrifice. Hal Lindsey, the most popular Christian Zionist author of our day, has written that he expects the Jews to take over the Temple Mount and The Zionist movement, however, might never have succeeded if a group of British politicians had not taken up the cause of restoring the Jews to Palestine. Lord Shaftsbury promoted the cause in the nineteenth century, followed by Lord Palmerston, David Lloyd George, and finally Lord Balfour, who provided an official basis for Jewish immigration to their ancestral homeland with the famous Balfour Declaration of 1917. A brand of idealism mixed easily with practical politics in the activities of these statesmen.
| Hagee Endorsement of McCain Has Risks |
Is John Hagee A False Teacher and Agent of Zionist Israel? – The False Teaching of Christian Zionism When God-fearing Judeo-Christians from thousands of churches nationwide realize they’ve been conned by political Israel’s agents, they will leave CUFI, Christian Zionism, and the hundred-year-old movement we call “Scofieldism”, to return to the teachings of Jesus Christ. Hagee…said that Katrina was a righteous heavenly punishment against New Orleans sent by God himself…False Teachers JohnHagee Heresy Lies about Jesus and promote the Illuminati and NWO agenda along with John Mccain and Hillary Clinton. Apostasy: “Christian” Zionism and multi-faith False Unity Hagee has become one of America’s best known proponents of a movement with a contradictory name: Christian Zionism. It is a marriage of politics and current events as seen though particular interpretations of biblical writings,
Rice concerned over humanitarian conditions in Gaza The U.S Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has stated that she “had concerns” over the Israeli attacks on the Palestinian Gaza Strip, due to the recurring deaths of Palestinian civilians during the attacks.
Zionist Starvation Plan
| rOver 6000 Palestinian refugees from Gaza, including children, babies, pregnant women, the sick, the elderly, and unarmed civilians have been stranded on the Egyptian side of the Rafah border of Gaza for over one month now. |
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| A Palestinian woman inspecting her destroyed bedroom after an IAF strike on Gaza (Reuters) |
IDF kills 20 Palestinians in Gaza, W. Bank, including 5 children 
One of the many children killed in Lebanon by Israels’ Army during their invasion.. Hagee, Hillary and Mccain supported the invasion that left over 300 innocent people are now dead in Lebanon since Israel began its bombardment.
IS THE END NEAR
Arthur Koestler, a Jewish historian, in his work, “The Thirteenth Tribe”, …. they bow their knee to these super rich Kharzar Zionist communist Jews.
Arthur Koestler’s Book The Thirteenth Tribe..Who Are Modern-day Jew?
The Thirteenth Tribe, Arthur Koestler refutes the idea of a Jewish “race.” Moreover, he says that most Jews of the contemporary world did not come from Palestine and are not even of Semitic origin. His research shows that most Jews originated in what today is the Soviet Union. And that a group of people there became Jews through conversion, on the orders of their king. “The bulk of modern Jewry is not of Palestinian, but of Caucasian origin,” Koestler writes. “Their ancestors came not from the Jordan but from the Volga, not from Canaan but from the Caucasus.” Israel threatens to unleash ‘holocaust’ in Gaza
NewWorldOrderResearch.Org and Campaign 2008
“Mother of all Churches” Christians Must Observe the Saturday Sabbath (Reformers) “Lord of the Sabbath” Summary of the Holy Days From Sabbath to Sunday A Look at the Pope’s Reason for Sunday-keeping. Historical References to Sabbath Observance Rome’s Challenge … Why do Protestants keep Sunday? The Sabbath and the Council of Trent The Christian day of worship
The ORIGINAL Oral Roberts SEX TAPE! | ORULAWSUIT.ORG
Oral Roberts, Kenneth Copeland FREEMASONS
The Impact of Christian Zionism on American Policy and World Policy
YouTube – The Truth about Freemasons and Their Secret Agenda part 1
YouTube – The Truth about Freemasons and Their Secret Agenda pt2
Masons & Shriners Exposed as Luciferians
YouTube – REUBEN ARMSTRONG “SNAKES IN THE PULPIT
Rex Humbard (Independent) Remember – There is something God want you to know.. You are infinitely valuable to Him. He needs you. You did not come into this world by accident. You are no mistake but you are here by Divine design and for a purpose that He has best suited for you and you alone to perform.. You are His first and best choice to do what He has design for you. God Knew you before you were born, He knows all about you. You may not realize your value yet, but He does. He knows that you are worth every bit of the price that He paid for you. There is no way to convince Him otherwise.. ( taken from Wayne Anderson book – God’s DNA)
Christian Updates – Freemasonry and The New World Order.
Albert Pike teaches that Freemasons of the 30-32 Degrees are to be told that Lucifer … Roman Catholic spiritual The 700 Club Oral Roberts Baker tribulation.
Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN), Christian–Zionism-NewWorld Order
Torch of Truth International: The Truth Behind The Rapture
John Hagee, Zionist-Illuminati Agent – national chairman of Christians United for Israel, … What is the truth behind the Rapture?U.S. senator to investigate televangelists, including Oral Roberts University
Televangelist Loot – Creflo Dollar
Creflo Dollar Interview Part 1
Creflo Dollar Interview Part 2 Televangelists’ reportedly lavish lifestyles draw senator’s scrutiny (Fort Worth Star-Telegram)
Set For The Defense of the Gospel – Exposing Kenneth Copeland
GOP Senator Investigates Spending at Several TV Ministries (Washington Post)Oral Roberts returns to namesake university amid son’s scandal
Watch the Presidential 2008 debate on Youtube – Ron Paul, Hillery Clinton, Chris Dodd, John Edwards, Mitt Romey, Mike Gravel, John Mccain, Rudy Giuliani, Bill Richardson, Dennis Kucinich, Mike Huckabee, Fred Thompson, Joe Biden, Sam Brownback, Tommy Thompson, and Barack Obama.
The Awful Truth About Billy Graham
The Third Jerusalem Temple, The Red Heifer and The Rock of Ages
The Truth About the Lord’s Day – Saturday (7th day) or Sunday (1st day) TD Jakes Video
The Cost of Christian–Zionism – Is it of God?
The Impact of Christian Zionism on American Policy and World Policy
British Israel, The Hidden Hand Behind The ‘Kingdom of God on …
… Billy Graham, Robert Shuller, Benny Hinn, Jack Van Impe, Jerry Falwell, … As subtitled in one of the chapters from The Union Jack below states– they … House of Rothschild – New World Order – Israel and Masonry – Illuminati-Politics JOHN HAGEE BY STEVE LUMBLEY OF APOSTASY WATCH One of the credibility gaps with John Hagee are his associations within the Word of Faith Movement as seen in one of our photographs as he is featured along with Jesse Duplantis and Benny Hinn. In this post Steve Lumbley brings you even …
Jewwatch Critiques John Hagee’s Heresy Frank Weltner discusses John Hagee’s heresy. Will Christian Zionists listen? Not if they’ve chosen to worship Jews rather than Christ.
John Hagee’s Dual Covenant Duplicity Part Three If John Hagee really loved the Jewish people he would tell then that the savior they seek was born in Bethlehem 2000 years ago. He would tell them that their adherence to the Torah is worthless without a sacrifice. ..
Jesuits infiltration of Protestant Churches – by Ex-Jesuit Priest
Christian Updates – Freemasonry and The New World Order.
Albert Pike teaches that Freemasons of the 30-32 Degrees are to be told that Lucifer … Roman Catholic spiritual The 700 Club Oral Roberts Baker tribulation.
Rick Davis’s Hugh Hewitt Fantasy World: McCain Is The Victim
John Hagee Antichrist Teachings Exposed
Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN), Christian–Zionism-NewWorld Order
Zionism and AIPAC- John Hagee- a danger to everyone on earth
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Sword of Truth 
A trio of Google pieces that can turn you inside out: “Famous Rapture Watchers,” “The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),” and “Pretrib Rapture Diehards.” If you want the royal treatment when it comes to pretribulation rapture history, get a copy of “The Rapture Plot” at Armageddon Books. Bruce
Obviously you have not read “Revelations” in our Holy Word which is given from God our Father for direction. It is called “Revalation” because that is exactly what it is!! John was given a “revelation” on what is to come for us all!! Note that the Word of God states to be aware of FALSE PROPHETS and to be aware of man’s theories and false doctrines which is exactly what this is. This is exactly how God’s people are being so mislead today. The world is looking for acceptance and not willing to be responsible for their actions. However, God says that EVERY knee WILL bow and EVERY tongue WILL confess. Each of us will be judged by EVERY idle word. Don’t believe me? Read it for yourself. God says to let the SPIRIT guide you in truth. HIS SPIRIT, not man’s. I think it’s a shame at how confused and mislead the world is on this issue. We don’t want to take the time to read and dig deep. HE says if we seek we will find and if we knock the door will be opened. So I challenge you to do this and let me know how it turns out.
The rapture is for the remnant(Bride) that will be taken out of the Church(Body). That is THE mystery. The church at large is decieved in thinking that they can live like the world and then be taken out to reign with a Holy God. Yes, there is that deception going on. But the “snatching away” is for those who really love Him and strive to live a holy life (without spot or wrinkle) without it, no man shall see the King. Others “think” they love Him, but their own hearts have them deceived!!! We live a world of idols and rampant deception, do not be decieved the bible is true, every jot, every tittle. Meaning every word, every common, every period of what He said is coming to pass. Repent and BE READY. God Bless you!
Before I make my next comments, I must say do you remember that there were two other men that hung on crosses the day that our L_rd was crucified? Make sure that the one that you worship is the one that died for our sins. I would like you to think about the other two, and ask yourself what was their crime? Now also ask yourself, are there any out there that worship one of the other men that died that day? They were not innocent, not like our L_rd. Only our L_rd was sinless that day, and he took on our sins and the sins of the world. These others that hung for their crimes were guilty. We must make sure we are following the lamb of G_d. There are imposters. Men of lawlessness.
Many have read Revelations, and in it where do you see the word “rapture?” This is the definition of the word rapture in the dictionary…
rapture, n.,v., 1. ecstatic joy or delight: joyful ecstasy. 2. an utterance or expression of ecstatic delight. 3. the carrying of a person to another place or sphere of existence.
Where did this third definition come from? Isn’t it interesting that this word carries with it such emotion? Understand this Ann, we are not called to emotion, nor to follow any other gospel than the one that was preached by the apostles. Better yet, we must walk as Yeshua walked. Would you contend with that? I would challenge you to listen to some of these “end time seed ministries,” and ask yourself what are they sowing? Remember the angels with the sickles in their hands in the book of Revelation? What are they harvesting? Grapes and a vine… Not briars and thistles. That should alert us. These angels are harvesting for the great wine press of G_d’s fury; fruit… grapes… a vine…
Now lets talk about the great prostitute… what did G_d say to give her? A double portion! Do you know what I hear today in modern ministry? “Sow your seeds of faith, and reap a double portion. This is the season of double portion if you give your $1000.00 or more gift. God wants you to prosper. Or you can be poor and live off that government cheese.” Taking the law and making it lawless. Such things are smoke in the nostrils of the Most High G_d. It all has a form of righteousness, but denies our L_rd and cuts to the heart of G_d. It follows another gospel. A gospel of prosperity, much of which they quote and try to claim the blessing that G_d said that he would give to the house of Judah and the house of Israel. The problem with this blab it and grab it ministry, is that it does not take into account the affliction that the people of Israel endured because of idolatry. You can not just take blessings. They are the restorative promises of a merciful G_d. People today are looking for signs and wonders, and again, what did Yeshua say about those who want signs? He called them adulterous. Adulterous? I pray that you would look with new eyes and and hear new ears at this so called faith movement. What is the man of lawlessness? The one spoken about in 2 Thessalonians? Isn’t lawlessness those who do not keep the law? Not that salvation comes from following the law, but we, because we love G_d live by faith, and by faith we choose to revere the name of G_d by keeping his commands. We must obey because Yeshua obeyed. He has given us the power to do so. Again not for salvation, but to glorify his Father, who is also our Father in Heaven. So ask yourself this question about todays preachers and pastors or faith movements…
1. Do they keep the Sabbath (Friday sundown through Saturday sundown)
2. Do they keep the ten commandments? All the commandments are important, they are not just for the court houses or for schools. Do they have images of crosses, angels,swords, and anything else that they claim is a “symbol” of their faith? They are nothing more than idols. Around the neck, on the face of bibles, on bumperstickers, at the pulpit, on the church lawns. They sing at the cross, at the cross where I first saw the light, and the burden of my heart rolled away, it was there by faith, I received my sight and now I am happy all the day. What is wrong with this great song? Where is Yeshua? We are not led to a cross. We are led to Yeshua, the Christ who was crucified, died, was buried, and rose three days later through the power of the Holy Spirit, acsended into heaven and was and is seated at the right hand of G_d now and forever more. Are others who are perishing supposed to get all that by singing at the cross at the cross? It is not semantics, I can promise you that. It is looking to the cross, a man made object. Why not the nails? You know with out the nails our L_rd could not be crucified…and then how about the tomb? The crowning acheivement in our atonement, was the raising of Yeshua from the dead…Why don’t they walk around with a tomb around their necks? Or have a tomb at the pulpit? Do you see what I am talking about? What is the crucifiction without the resurrection? We do not need to be reminded with images. If we love G_d and walk by faith, then we also, by faith understand the the word of G_d is true and that he is truly the same yesterday, today and forever. What is a graven image? Is the word grave in there? An image of death. The cross is an image of death. Yeshua died once and for all. Not over and over. Why are so many afraid to talk about such things? Do others think by taking away the image of the cross, they are denying Yeshua? On the contrary, to take away the image of the cross, glorifies our L_rd, because he says to be holy as he is holy. Becoming holy as he is holy means putting idolatry away. I put it this way… the crosses that are displayed today, did Yeshua die on it? The cross that hangs around someones neck, did he die on the charm around that persons neck? If not then it is an idol. To say he died on that little charm would be a lie. He would not agree, I asure you, with the images of the crosses every where. The reason he would not agree is that it is rebellion against his Father who says you shall not make for yourselves any graven images. When a missonary goes into a pagan land that worships idols and little fedishes, missionaries put up a cross and say come to Jesus. So they see the cross, not Jesus. They only understand idol worship, so when the cross is given they worship that.
Lets look at what Yeshua is called…”The Lion of Judah.” Now lets look at the word REBELLION. Can we split the one word into two? REBEL LION! A rebel lion can resemble the Lion of Judah, but to rebel is to be lawless.
4. Does any thing that these men and women say contridict the words of the gospel? I can think of many that violate the gospel. We all get carried away in the words of Paul and Peter, but let us go back and be in love with the words of Yeshua. In the gospel, Yeshua laid out the life that we should live, and how we are to love one another.
5. Do these men and women who claim to be moved by G_d join with the catholic church? Something that the catholic church has tried to do and suceeded, is saying that all sould be united as one? Shall I be joined with a prostitute? Shall I be the daughter of a prostitute? I follow Yeshua. I am sorry that so many so called believers are thrown into confusion by another gospel. Yeshua talked about the sheep and the goats. I choose to be his sheep and follow only his voice.
I think I have said enough for today. May the G_d of the Heavens and the Earth, the sea and the springs of water, bless you with eyes that see and ears that hear, a mind that understands and a heart that follows hard after him. He is to be praised. He is to be glorified. He is worthy. Worthy is the L_rd of Host. Give him the glory, honor and praise!
Amen Ann, you are correct. Rapture is not mentioned in scripture, nor is the word trinity, yet we know and understand their meaning and truth. I too believe what the bible tells us, Wake up, and agree with everything it tells us either symbolicaly, metaphoricaly, allegoricaly, or literally. I don’t believe persay, in peoples individual perpective in writing, books, pamphlets, CD’s preaching lessons or anything else that uses Gods word, soley because they mention the bible. At some point they interject a twist or turn of what THEY believe and understand the meaning to be. That is a second hand opnion and we all have one and they ALL differ at some junture or thought. You may choose to believe otherwise, and God bless you, lets not let HIS word be distorded by frenzy or fanaticism.
Dear EH,
I wish they still gave out gov. cheese, but I believe they discontined it, as far as I know.:)
I love to wear jewelry, some of them crosses, I don’t bow to them, or worship them, they are a reminder TO ME, of HIS love for ME. I believe many people feel this way, tho certainly not all of them. I also listen to what people have to say and I may agree or disagree with them, but I don’t worship THEM. I love God and His word, and I try to love myself and others and do His will. I do falter, as we all do and will, but then we get up and try again. It’s not really complicated, it just takes patience, loyaty ( to HIM), commitment, faith, and learning and studying His word, as well as congregational meetings with others, ON the shabbat, some use Sunday, but I agree the true day is Saturday, as per the sciptures, but, that is personal according to ones own life and schedule. My point is that we (humanity) can never experience a relationship with GOD in the same way, for it is a “personal” relationship. As long as we remain true to HIS word, not mans or mans opinions, He will be pleased.
It doesn’t really matter how we feel about idolatry, or how we might want that special trinket and say, “I do not worship it, it just reminds me of my faith,” but we must still understand that G_d is holy, and regardless of the warm and fuzzy’s of christian trinkets, it is not too difficult, is it, for you to show respect to the one true G_d? If you can not get up right now and take that precious trinket and throw it away and never think of it again from this day forward, and praise Yeshua because HE paid the price for your sin, if you can’t bring yourself to throw it away…it’s idolatry. It has you ancored my friend. It is such a small thing isn’t it? So why do we make excuses and think we can have that idol? Do you love him? Do you accept him? Do you worship him? Is this an acceptable way to love, accept and worship the Living G_d? With fedishes of gold and silver? It may not mean much to you, but it an afront to G_d the Father, who gave his only Son to be a sacrifice for our sins…All you are doing is trampling on the blood of Yeshua all over again, and again.
I pray that you will renew your mind and understand that you have been following cultural christianity, not Yeshua.
I am amazed at how the words of some preacher or person at the pulpit can sway so many from reading and understanding the word of G_d.
Have you seen the detestable things that have been going on on ALL the “religious channels?”
Especially TBN and the god TV? If you understand symbology, as so many seem to favor symbology, take a look at this new channel called god TV. They have bragged that they are sending signals from Jerusalem to all the world. All of this is for their god I can assure you. It is a part of their goal to dupe the children of G_d into giving up their money for the “spreading” of the gospel. It is not the gospel that they are spreading…it is a virus. The visions and prophecies that this Wendy Alec gives (or the Unknown Prophet as was her first title) are strait from Illuminati propaganda. They are in charge of the airways, as satan is called the prince of the air. All christians have endorsed and praised this person, but I tell you she is false. Do not give money to that ministry. The back drop of the Wendy and Rory show that airs from Washington D.C. shows all the buildings that have been built by the Freemasons, as well as the Dome of the Rock (also built by the Freemasons). You can see the symbol of masons in the tile work of the Dome, and it is clear for all to see in their back drop.
TBN also. And lets not even get started with Day Star.
I pray that you all will look with new eyes what has been done and the dark power that is at work.
I do love GOD with all of my heart, He above even the love that I have for my own children, let alone a trinket. But you do NOT know all of mankinds heart, just as I don’t know mankinds heart, only GOD. So we should not assume our beliefs are more righteous to HIM than anyone elses, and don’t be decieved by what you see, only He is omniscient, and omnipresent is my point. We are all different, and thank goodness for that,, In Him,,…me
We can be assured that his law is holy, and whether you choose to follow it or not, justify it or not, it is not I who sees to the heart of man, but G_d alone. But I can also tell you that he has called us to be holy before him, and although our righteousness is found in Christ and we are justified by faith in him, then all the more, we should strive to be holy as he is holy. If you can say with honesty that Yeshua is your rock and your redeemer, and you can say that it is he that strengthens you and delivers you, then it is not at all too difficult to rid yourself of the things of are an abomination to him.
As far as being decieved by what is seen, all the more, when one’s eyes are open and they see the sin that so easily entangles, shall we then say, “You can’t always believe what we see?”. That is the problem. We don’t believe what we see. It is often so close to us that we only see part of it. Step back for a few moments, and look again at the bigger picture. Look with new eyes and listen with new ears at what is being preached. Compare it with the word of G_d.
There was once a man with whom a friend of mine knew, and it was this man’s job to check money all day to see if it was real or counterfit. One day, my friend asked, “How can tell whether the money is real or counterfit?” He said “In order to find out whether the money is real or counterfit, you must study the real thing.”
You do not have to believe me, but I do expect you to believe G_d, and I would encourage you to go back and read the gospel accounts again, and ask yourself…”Is the gospel really being preached in all the world.” Remember, you must compare it to the words and actions of Yeshua. You can not compare just words. Ask yourself, what is it that today’s preachers preach more about? Our L_rd and him crucified? You will hear that, but that is not all you will hear. Do not take mine or any other preacher’s word for it. Do not just read or believe some doctrine. Go and read the word of G_d, and allow him to teach you and instruct you. If you will open your heart up to just that, I can promise you that you will begin to see what is really going on in the world right now. Take this week, and ask the L_rd to open your eyes even more than what you see now, and to show you new things, things that have been right in front of your eyes this whole time, yet you did not see before. Have you ever looked for something in your house, and you seached and searched, only to stop for a moment, take a breath, look down and realize that the thing that you were looking for was right in your hands the whole time? I have. I have done it with my keys, pencils and pens etc. The point is, that something can be so close to you and it is possible to not even perceive it.
He will show you. You will see, if you are willing.
G_d bless you.
Read Job…god bless you..
Job has great insight and when one is done reading Job, flip over to Isaiah and read it from beginning to end. A very interesting thing happened in Israel the year that it became a state… in the Qumran, was found the Dead Sea Scrolls. What an amazing discovery, wouldn’t you agree? Some would use this as meaning that this was a confirmation that G_d had ordained Israel to be a nation again, but I can tell you that the book of Isaiah was found in full text, because it is relevent for the people living in the land. Many things were discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls, but the prophet Isaiah’s words to the house of Jacob are clear, and my suggestion is to read the book of Isaiah from beginning to end, and see if this prophet words can relate to the book of Revelation with dead on accuracy. The book of Isaiah was given to guide the nation of Israel in righteousness, and to show the coming messiah, judgement, atonement, the punishment of the “Queen of Heaven” and of those who worship idols, and a heavy judgement on the nations. It would be wise also to read the book of Proverbs for wisdom and understanding as to how we are to conduct ourselves and our business transactions and all areas of life. The word is always near to us, but we must ask for wisdom and understanding to discern the times in which we live. With all that said, Isaiah carries warnings to the house of Jacob, and if Israel will not heed the word of the L_rd, it will happen as he foretold. He has told the end from the beginning. He alone will be glorified, and he will not share his glory with another. I would like you to reflect on what was going on in the book of Isaiah, and see the mirror reflection of their actions today. They are not a nation conceived by his hand, but of the hands of gentiles, and furthermore, then hands of satan, so that he may destroy the children of Jacob. He is searching right now throughout the earth for those who belong to G_d, stating that they just want to “bless” the nation of Israel, but I am telling you that there is a plot, both dark and evil, to round them up and destroy them. This must not happen. Right now, those who are his, are safe where they are. Those who live in Iran, are not suffering as the media would like everyone to believe. There are those who would like you to believe that Iran will wipe out Israel, but understand that when Israel was taken into exile in the ancient Babylon, they returned from captivity. They did not all die in that land. G_d knows how to keep his children safe, even in the enemies hands. The children of Jacob are kept in G_d’s protection out of Israel right now. Those who are in Israel, he has been calling out for sometime. It is better for them to leave, because what is coming in the land. He knows how best to protect and sustain. Read Isaiah again, and see the hand of G_d right now, and the words of the prophet pop off the page. Then look again at the state of Israel and ask yourself, is this a nation that has been established in righteousness?
Are you aware that Zionists bore false testimony against the Arabs back before Israel became a state? Jews dressed up like Arabs with bombs loaded in milk containers, went into the King David hotel where the British had their control center, and blew up the hotel? With people inside. And when they discovered where the bomb originated, they remember seeing Arabs bring those milk containers into the hotel. They blamed the Arabs for doing the bombing. Do you want to know how I know this? It was a Zionist who bragged about it on tv just a few years ago. He laughed as he told the story of deception, at the cost of innocent lives, and the reputation of Arabs. Have you seen what has become of Palestine? They are walled out, segregated and held as less then worthy of water, electricity, jobs or anything else. Is this the working of righteousness before the name of a holy G_d? The Torah says to not deny anyone who desires to live in the land. To live at peace, because it carries his holy name. So Israel that bares his holy name, treats their neighbors with contempt and blood shed? Denying them justice? We must look at this from G_d’s eyes, not from the reports of corrupt men. He says to be holy as he is holy…This is a common theme through out the scriptures, and here we have bloodshed, malice, false witness, idolatry and every other abominable thing living there. Shall I equate this with a holy G_d, or shall I believe him when he says that he will act for his name’s sake? Don’t be so quick to think that Israel is in the right. And the propaganda that to speak against the people of Israel will cause curses to come upon them. I would never speak against my own people, but I can speak against idolatry, injustice, bloodshed, false witness and all that G_d says should not exist in his land. I speak for the Holy One of Israel, not for Israel. I praise the Holy One of Israel, not Israel. He said if you are careful to keep my commands and decrees, and love me and with all your heart and follow me, THEN you will be my people and I will be your G_d. But the children of Israel will not listen…they will follow the stubborness of their own hearts. So can I discern between right and wrong? Between what is righteous and what is unrighteous? I can.
If you say that we can not live the righteousness that you speak of, and that is why Yeshua came and gave his life, then I say yes…And Yeshua summed up the law by saying “Love the L_rd your G_d with all your heart, with all strength and with all your might, and love your neighbor as yourself.” Is this how Israel loves it’s neigbors?
Here is a little interesting reading for you if you have the time… It is quite lengthy, but I encourage you to read it through. You must understand that in the beginning of Revelations, in a message to one of the churches you will read about those who call themselves Jews but are not really Jews but of the synagoge of Satan. If you want to understand Jews that are not really Jews, read the following link and see what my people have unknowingly endured along with Christians and Arabs. It is an alarming timeline, one that I would encourage you to read very carefully, and ask G_d to give you the wisdom to understand it’s content. It is very damaging, and should not be taken lightly.
This time line sounds like “anti-semite” propaganda, but I assure you, do your homework and understand that as in the book of Revelation, of the 144,000 that are sealed, the names of Dan and Ephraim are not listed! This is not a typo! The land of Dan is where the current city of Tel Aviv is located. It is the cultural capital and financial center of Israel. The stock exchange there (baal and molach, the bull gods) and the temples of baal and molach (corporations and 33rd degree Scottish Rite Grand Temple) are located there. You will read about the worship of the baals and molach all through out the prophets and in the book of Isaiah. This stock exchange which started as the Anglo-Palistine bank was established in 1938, ten years before Israel was “born.” This is an abomination to the G_d of Israel. Understand that all the prophets of Israel and Judah where killed because they spoke against idol worship of the baals and molach and other pagan gods. All but Elijah. There is a reason for this, and it is explained in Revelation. The two witnesses will come to challenge and prophecy against the false prophets of baal, molach, and all those who follow after these gods. So copy and paste the link, and read this timeline.
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-rothschild-timeline.html
Rapture is not a theory but a reality. The word rapture does not need to be in the bible as it is for it to be true but its meaning is clearly portrayed. Mind you, every christian reads the Bible and it clearly states that in the twinkling of an eye the dead in Christ shall rise first and we who are alive shall be court up together with them to meet the Lord…In Matthew the Bible says two shall be grinding together , one shall be taken and another remain…Please, be aware that there is no need at all to right volumes and volumes of words against the word rapture because whether it shall happen or not preparing for it only means living a righteous life until Christ comes back hence there is no deception at all. Let me repeat : If i manage to abstain from any wrong doing and follow christ believing that He will rapture the saints in the fullness of time whether i will be raptured or not, Christ will find me ready for Him. I urge all the chilren of God not to fight each other with unneccessary arguments of words because we have one common denominator as the children of God which is Jesus Christ. I belive all of us christians believe that Jesus Christ will come again to take the saints home, so, whether we will be raptured or not all those found ready will be with Christ as heirs of the Kingdom of God. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO DECEPTION IN THE WORD RAPTURE AND THERE IS NO NEED TO FIGHT OVER IT. IF YOU DONT BELIEVE THE WORD RAPTURE THEN JUST BELIEVE THAT JESUS WILL COME BACK AS A THIEF IN THE NIGHT TO TAKE THE SAINTS HOME. IF YOU BELIEVE IT, THE SAME APPLIES THAT HE IS THE SAME CHRIST COMING TO TAKE THE SAINTS HOME. LETS NOT WORST TIME DEBATING ON WORDS BECAUSE WHAT MAKES A PERSON LOSE THE KINGDOM IS NOT THE MEANING OF SUCH WORDS BUT SIN. AVOID SEXUAL IMMORALITY, WHITCHRAFT, DRUNKENNESS, ADULTERY,……” Because we are not as perfect as God , you will see that we will always have slight differences in uderstanding the Word, even when the gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John were written, they reported differently on the same matters.
The deception of the christians by the devil is not through the word rapture that we are battling with but the aspect of diverting our attention from what we ought to observe and focus on unnecessary arguments. What will it profit me to battle the whole day about the word rapture when i am failing to avoid watching ponography everyday and falling into udultery .
Mathew 5 “Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God”
WHETHER YOU BELIEVE THE WORD RAPTURE OR NOT IF YOU LIVE A HOLY LIFE YOU WILL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD AND IF YOU LIVE IN SIN YOU WILL HAVE ETERNAL CONDEMNATION IN THE LAKE OF FIRE.
GOD BLESS YOU ALL
OK….God bless you…
You are right about controversy, but I must say that it is indeed true that Yeshua says that he comes like a thief! I would like you to concider for a moment what is he talking about? Is it just that we will be taken into the sky? I can tell you that it is not about some divine rapture, but about what is coming upon the earth because of the apostate teaching of “seed faith ministries, and the apostolic revival ministries.” Do your homework on who Hagee is. Look up the family tree, and as a matter of fact all of the so called faith ministries have a core somewhere, and you will have to do your homework to see it. Do not give your money to ministries, and understand that when he says he comes like a thief, he means it.
I will tell you there is a darkness at work, and “detention camps” have been secretly built for the inprisonment christians, jews and muslims that speak against Israel. Are you aware of this? You must come out of the church and follow Yeshua the messiah. He gave the great commission to US, but the gospel has been twisted, so that those who are perishing will stay where they are. All religions, including those even in the faith seed ministry, are in danger. I tell you the truth, the L_rd is warning us to be careful, and watchful, for what is coming is unprecidented in all history.
See what is happening. All christians, jews and muslims are being used to destroy each other.
I give you a link in my other entry above, please read it and understand that we are all in danger.
Crimes will come against minister Benny Hinn, and they will destroy his ministry. This will happen because he is an arab, and not an Israeli, and they will charge him with trying stir up discention because of his Arab heritage. Many unthinkable things are about to take place, so if you would like to be ready for anything, be ready for what is about to take place. There is a dark force at work right now looking for those who are of the house of Jacob, and they are using “good works toward Israel” to find them. They must not find them! God knows how to keep his children safe in these times. Christians will come underfire for bilking unsuspecting people out of their money, and in turn will set up laws against such ministries. This too is planned, and it will happen. There is a lot going on that many are unaware of, and we must be willing to examine the facts!
Rapture theory will be tested as a false teaching through the use of our own bible, and all that has been written in the New Testament will be used against us. What will you say in that day? It will be used as a vechicle to say that christianity only seeks to decieve unsuspecting people into fear of death, and to give to the ministry to spead the “gospel” so that all will be saved, giving them reason to inprison anyone who espouses such teachings. I am telling you, follow only G_d. It is a terrible time that is coming, and I do not say these things for you to be frightened, but so that you may be ready.
Is the name Benny Hinn, or Ben Hinnom?
Look up the word Ben Hinnom in the bible.
Also, if you have a greek-hebrew key word bible, look up the word “NASA” in the hebrew. Read all the definitions of the word “NASA” and see what is written about the definition of this word.
Blessings in Him who dwells forever, and of his Son, Yeshua the Messiah!
Isaiah 54:17 ” No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper and every toungue that shall rise against you in judgement you shall condemn…”
Romans 8:1 “There is therefore now no condemnation to those that are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit…”
Luke 10:19 “Behold i give you power to tred upon serpents and scopions and all the powers of the enermy and nothing shall by any means hurt you”
Rev 12:11 “.. they overcame him (Devil) by the blood of the Lamp and by the words of their testmony…”
I can go on and on qourting scriptures of the assurance of victory that we have in Christ Jesus. Brother, never concentrate on stories of doom, they have ever been there. I am not denying any facts you are telling but i can only say we have greater news to set our focus on ; that of our salvation in Jesus Christ than that of doom and darkness. Its clear in the Word that dark times will come but thank God for Jesus because He did not give us the spirit of fear but of love … and sound mind…I would rather talk and preach about the glory,love ,peace and joy that we have in him than stories of darkness and doom. “.. for the Kingdom of God is not meat and drink but righteousness peace and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Finally i want to insist that the Bible is very clear on the aspect of rapture. I agree the word never features in the sctripures but the meaning is evident from Genesis to Revelation. The same way Enock was raptured, Elijah was as well, Jesus Christ Himself, It will come to pass not becauise i believe it as a theory but its clealy written in the Word that in the twinkling of an eye…, Christ will come as a thief in the night.
I urge you to reconsider these scriptures again. ITS THERE IN THE SCRIPURES.
GLORY BE TO GOD
So true and amen, now I would love for you to go back to those scriptures that you quoted, especially the one in Isaiah and understand it in the context in which it was written. When we quote scriptures we must understand the full context, otherwise it becomes twisted.
As for the other scriptures that you quoted, I would like you to reflect on them and ask yourself if you are living in the context of those scriptures.
I find it interesting that doom and gloom is the buzz word, yet the first scripture that you quote is from Isaiah. All the prophets were full of doom and gloom, so what is your point? You quote from Isaiah yet you do not see what G_d is talking about. How is that possible? I tell you about idolatry, baal and molach, and you want to say peace, peace. Yeshua did not come to bring peace, but a sword, which is by many being used today to gore people with. He is the Prince of Peace, not to be confused with a bull god. We should never mix the blessings of this life; the comfortable homes, the jobs, or any thing else we have and have paid for with money with the things of G_d. In James it says that all GOOD things come from G_d. I must state that the word GOOD, means GOOD. Now look at the things that are tangible to us. We think they are “good” right? I would like you to look at everything that you own, and ask yourself, is it good? Is it? That car? We think it is good because it gets us where we need to go, but what does it do to the environment? Where does it go when it can no longer be driven? And what people in other countries paid the price of slavery to give you that car? Take a look at where the minerals and metals come from. How many lives in the wake of extracting this metal where sacrificed so that we can drive cars? Is that doom and gloom or is it reality? I would love for you to explore the depth of what we call good and from G_d these days. The homes we live in, all of it. Because at some point we have to wake up and understand that the name of G_d is being slandered. It is time to wake up, because if we do not listen carefully to what Yeshua says, and do what he says, we alone suffer the consequences.
I warn you, so that you can be ready for what is coming, but if you will not listen, I at least did my part in telling you.
I tell you be stewarts of the land, care for all that G_d has created. Work the land with your hands and bring forth real grains and fruits, and care for the animals in a respectful way. We do not know how to do these things, and so have become dependant upon the current system for our food, clothing, housing, light, heat and transportation.
Next I will say that if the churches continue to spread rapture theory and theology, and embrace the thought of war, speading messages of hate to all who oppose Israel, and of blood shed, there will be a great consequence. If you believe that Arabs are the enemy, then you must love them, as he has commanded us. We must not have pre-emptive strikes against anyone.
If you are inclined to believe that the count down in Israel had begun the end of days, and you preach such things, especially to those who are perishing in war torn areas, there will be great pursecution, but not from man…from G_d. The world is not going to end, because if you read the end of Revelations, life does indeed go on, it’s just a matter of what side of the gate you will be on.
I leave you with one final thought…
I would like for you to reflect on the disciple Judas, his part as a follower of Yeshua, and look at his life. What did he do for a living, how he sold Yeshua for money from the Religious leaders of the day, his unrepentant, yet sorrowful realization as to what he did, and how he ended his own life. He sold Yeshua for money, betraying him. He was also the treasurer who collected money for the poor. Do you see any of this at work in life today?
There is much to be done, but I will never equate the things of the Eternal G_d with the man made things that came through the work of the bull god. I will not equate the Glory of the Living G_d with the bull god Baal or Molach. I will not slander my G_d by saying that “industry and modern life have brought us blessings like never before,” when his creation…He who made the trees, the earth, the sky and the water, people and all living things are being exploited and put into slavery. Look at this place we call home, and how the church is always used as a vehicle to do a land grab to exploit indiginous peoples. There are going to be consequences for such actions. The church is used to get into areas where the land is bountiful, rich in resources, under the guise of “spreading the gospel,” and then those who worship baal and molach sacrifice those very people by enslaving them, and bring poverty worse then before. They then leave them there to die when all the resources are used up. All for the bull god.
This should not happen.
Amen Blessed, you are correct. In spirt and in faith we must live and be pure of HEART, for the flesh IS sin, by nature (because of the origianl sin, not because GOD intended it to be).I humbly believe condeming one another for each others sin is a mute point. We would need to rise above our own understanding to do that, and the only way to do that is to let GOD deal with sin. Being proud, arrogant, and judgmental is a sin, just as are the other obvious ones, murder, sexual immorality, lust, greed and the like, yet most in religion today are like the saducees, so full of the knowledge of GOD and concentrate on IT (knowledge), rather than APPLYING the aquired knowledge into their daily lives. Wisdom and knowledge is needed to understand God, however, knowledge without God (who is love), is useless. We are required in love to exhort each other when we deviate from His plans, but once again, in love and not in a judgement, for only HE knows the heart of man. God doesn’t care how much we know, He wants to know that we care.
As for rapture. Time and time again through the bible God has showed His mercy towards HIS children. He has always forwarned them, PRIOR to disaster via, signs (blood over the door), phrophets, dreams, and visions.How many times did he give the prophets the words to tell His people of impending doom, and how many times did they NOT listen? Yet, He is merciful though we have failed Him repeatedly. If we believe and by faith walk by His commands,once again, He WILL deliver or(rapture)us when the time comes. The history of the LIVING BIBLE shows the pattern. We either believe it, or we don’t. Preach on blessed, God be with us all….amen
No disrespect to anyone, but the pre-trib rapture can not be proved in the Bible without a biased or predjudiced view toward the usual Scriptures used to support this untruth. For the sake of truth if anyone feels that they can provide an adequate defense of the rapture, please do so. I beleive that this site metions that Martin Luther and Calvin did not have notions of an rapture yet these are some of the fathers of the Protesant faith of which many in the west claim to be apart of. Martin Luther protested the Catholic Church for their lack of truth which preys upon the ignorant and specifically those in the time of Luther those who could not read. The difference is today most can read, but are taught and conditioned to view Scriptures a certain way which sckews to their understanding of the Scriptures with regard to the rapture. Unfortunately, many fail to apply basic and unbiased grammatical principles which would prevent some gross errors. Over simply put the rapture is but the transformation from mortality to immortality of those that happen to be alive at the Resurrection. The dead in the graves receive their immortal bodies just as those that happen to be alive. The first resurrection and the rapture are not seperate events they are the same. This a condensed and short description if you will. Therefore, if this is an untruth concerning Christianity why should it be tolerated, and what is the purpose and consequence of this untruth? If you beleived a lie, but thought it was a truth and continued to tell that lie posed as a truth and it affected many lives in some form or fashion how would you feel? Do not let your belief conform your truth, rather seek truth that your belief is conformed. So many have been taught the rapture yet have not truly considered and studied it for themselves. I grew up since a child under the teaching of the pre-trib rapture, so this is not something I do not understand. Probably one of the hardest things to do is to uproot a habit or belief system whether wrong or right from an individual once it has taken root especially from a child. I challenge you as well as myself to unbiasly reconsider, study, and seek truth in the Scriptures and see where the Spirit leads. Again, I have yet to see an adequate defense of the rapture. If anyone can please do so for I myself could be beleiving a lie. I like to beleive that when I find truth I submit to it as apposed to holding on to and defending my previous position.
Blessed,
I guess there is no more I can say, since you alone have been judge and jury. It is so easy to get carried on in what seems to be “love” talk, but just as if a person was in the middle of the street and in danger of getting hit, would you just stand there and watch, or would you lay down your life? That is love isn’t it? Or would you just watch in horror?
I was not focusing on sin, nor have I mentioned sin. We are covered by the blood of the Lamb. But what about after? I am talking about walking in righteousness, and about the things that are very important to the heart of G_d. He needs to be first, but that has come to mean that we give him the first hours of the morning, the controversy of titheing on the gross or the net, and many other things. What are you acting out in love? Your life? The only way to do such things is to recognize that love for him is paramount, then all else. And if that is so, then upholding what he says in the highest respect out of honor and adoration for him and what he has done for us comes first. To meditate on his word, and hide it in my heart, so that through me the CHARACTER of G_d will be displayed. We are his children, and we are to be set apart for his glory and for his name. How can we do that when we disregard what he says? Picking and choosing like we are shopping doesn’t suit the King who has allowed us to be indwelled with the Spirit of the Living G_d.
It seems that we must worship two completely G_d’s. Just know that there is only one G_d, and he has said all that is written in the scriptures, so what you reject and scorn is really the character and majesty of the Living G_d. I understand where you are coming from, and all I can say is that I have neither condemned or judged any one. I have simply brought to light a few missing features from today’s christian life.
May he bless you as you dwell with him.
EH. Your first paragraph answered the (rapture) question, would the God who loves and created us watch us about to be run over PRIOR to impending doom? NO!! You claim you do not mention sin, but by attacking the lives of those which you know nothing about and asking questions that should not concern you, a mere human, you are implying we are being sinful and not doing his will. Indeed we ALL are sinners and will be here on earth as long as we remain in the flesh. There in only one who is HOLY. Not even the angels know when the exact time of HIS coming, and they are sin free, and when we go to be with HIM, we will still not know everything for HE is still GOD, and there is only one TRUE GOD. You don’t know my heart, whats more, you don’t even listen to the words we tell you. You are concerened with being right, but that is a matter between you and God. And KC, I don’t really know what you are talking about, but you know exactly where the bible tells us where the dead shall meet HIM, and then the others will follow, so you answered your own claims as well.
We can banter back and forth about this, but ultimately HE knows our hearts and will judge us, let us not use our voices to attack those who think differently than us, only pray as I pray for us, and for me, and for humanity in general. I chose to believe HE will remove those HE loves prior to the trib, like it or not, believe it or not, agree with me or not, whatever you wish, but that is MY belief as I read HIS word. You all can think what you wish, and thats ok too. We are all HIS children. God bless…
One last note, if you please. There are some, dear EH, and others, that what you are saying may apply to, and I wish to encourage your passion and your desire to want to help, and thank you for that. Only please, perhaps without attacking and with more empathy.
In certain topics we may disagree EVEN as we read and study, but it doesn’t mean I am lost and without Gods salvation, that, ONLY God can know and it is a matter between HE and I, very intimate, and very personal.
I just wanted to acknowledge your talent and love for G_d, and appreciate you for who you are. Keep up the good work!!:)…In him…yo
KC,
I agree with you, for if we test what is being preached and believed, as we are told to do by the apostles, we will see a pattern that is out of step with the character of G_d. If we read through the Old Testament, we can see that G_d has always blessed, then as his children turned from him to idol worship, he sent his prophets to warn, and was very long suffering not wanting any one to perish because of the consequence of what they were doing to him…from there he always waits for repentance, but if no one will hear, repent and turn back to him, he would stir up opposing nations and allow his land to be left desolate. His prophets either died at the hands of those who refuse to believe what was coming, or they themselves went into captivity. But it never ends there, because he is also a G_d of mercy and love, and while he judges, he also promises to restore, protect, and sustain them during their time of exile. When HE feels that the time is right to return the children of Israel to their land, he does so, and establishes them in righteousness. If they once again follow after idols, deny justice, bear false witness, and swear falsely by his holy name, the process starts all over again. The book of Revelation is about his children ultimately being a renown for his name, but if they use his name in unjust ways and once again be entangled in idolatry, this leads him to act again.
Gentiles are grafted into the rich heritage of sonship, and now gentiles who are grafted in are to be identified with those who are natural born jews. If this is so, then we can see in Revelations, that many times it is stressed about obeying the commands of G_d, and the remain faithful to the testimony of Yeshua. I don’t think that anyone can disagree with that, right? But there is a disagreement.
G_d, in his mercy and love always knows how to sustain and protect those who are his. He did so in the life of Joseph, when his brothers where jealous and sold him into slavery, it was Joseph who stayed true to G_d, excelled in everything that he did, and in G_d’s awesome love, brought the rest of Jacob’s family to Egypt to sustain them during the drought that threatened their existance. Rapture theory can not be equated with Enoch, Elijah or with Yeshua. When Elijah was taken alive to heaven, there was still work to be done, and life continued to go on down on earth. Rapture theory takes all responsiblity that we have, and act like a spoiled rich child. I don’t need to worry about that thing, be cause my daddy says I won’t be here for that, so uuah!
It is defiance and rebellion against the Lamb who says that we need to go and make disciples of all men, showing the love and mercy of his Father, and living holy lives before him as we minister to others. And because Yeshua is our righteousness, and strengthens us in all things, he makes it possible to live a holy life. It is out of respect and honor.
There is nothing that provoked our L_rd more than idolatry. And there is actually a bull god still worshipped in the land that is currently called Israel. I say currently called Israel, because Israel was obtained through false witness, and before it was established as “Israel” the bull god was set on it’s thrown. Every one is looking for this anti-christ, but I tell you many are here now, and pull the strings in the land of “Israel.” The name Israel was the name given to Jacob because Jacob means surplanter. Jacob had a tendency toward deception, but G_d changed his name to Israel and a covenant was made. There is deception once again in that land, but it is not by the children of Israel. The real children of Israel suffer under the hand of oppression in that land, are silenced, and many have been defrauded of their land, and thrown into “detention camps” a nice way of saying “consentration camps”, with their children taken from them!” This is how “Israel” treats the children of the Living G_d? I am a Jew, but, I am grieved by what is going on to not only the real Jewish population, but also Christian and Arab persecution. If you want to know who the whore of babylon is, look to to the current religious system. Everyone thinks and speculates about who the great prostitute is…but I tell you, it is clear in the book of Isaiah who mystery babylon is, and it dwells in the heart of the great city, which is the current “Israel.” If there is Scottish Rite freemasonry in “Israel” worshipping Molach the bull god, I tell you the truth, that Mystery Babylon is Israel. Now here comes the fall out, where I am called a heretic and an anti-semite, but the scriptures do not lie, and it is in the classic style of Ephraim and Dan. Are you aware that the “star of David” is not a Jewish symbol, yet we are to identify with it. Did you know that it is a symbol of satan? The jews in the land when the star was to be placed on the flag, were in objection to this symbol and felt that a different symbol should be used? It is not the symbol of the Jewish people. My family has done all the research on the family that is behind the take over of the holy land, and right under everyones nose and with the approval of christians! Christians have been used. My family exposed them along time ago, yet no one listened.
Doctrine is a slippery slope, and the rapture theory was put into place by the very people who are now in control of”Israel.” This was the plan from the beginning. It is actually about trying to find them all, bring them into the land, gain control of all the banks that do not bow down to them, and once they have done this, they will also get rid of the real Jews and Christians and the Arabs that live in the land. Have you seen the wall? Have you noticed? The Arab people will soon discover that although the wall is constructed for evil purposes, it will be used to actually protect them from what is about to come upon the land, if the people in power in “Israel” do not repent and uphold justice and mercy. Please do not be quick to side with Hagee and all those other churches that are being used to complete the purposes of this Zionism. Many have lost their lives, and he has heard their crys. Look at this world, and the fear that has been placed in the hearts of christians about “terror, and protecting this great nation and the state of “Israel”, do we actually believe that or do we believe Yeshua when he says “Do not be afraid of these things?”
I would encourage everyone to do a little history searching. I have given links to just a little bit of the history, but ultimately, what is going on is that the name of G_d is being profaned, and Christians are singing to that tune.
Have you ever wondered why Yeshua said “The stone that the builders rejected has become the capstone?”
To understand what Yeshua was talking about you must look to the mystery teachings of Freemasonry. Freemasons are all about building, and about the “great architect”, bragging about their stone masonry. Yeshua is the stone that they reject, and he IS the capstone. You will read through out the prophets about the “plumbline or measuring line”, because mystery babylon is based on the worship of Baal and Molach and the use of geometry. And if you think it only exists in “Israel,” just turn on your TV and watch the stock market. It is the bull god. It is the beast. A beast of burden. The stock market is represented all over the world by the bull and the bear. When the market is strong it is a bull when it is weak, it is a bear that crushes underfoot the lives of everyone. There are ten major stock exchanges that govern the seven continents. Understand that we have all been following this system for a long time. Can you live apart from it? Ask yourself that.
Christians have been taken in by this prosperity doctrine, yet in Yeshua’s day, any one that wanted to give a tithe or offering of money, could NOT give any money that had the face or name of Ceasar on it. It would be an imperfect offering and defiled. Look on your money, and then look at Freemason symbology and see if can identify the symbols. Are these kinds of tithes and offerings acceptable for the work of G_d? Go back to concordance in your bible and look up tithes and offerings that are acceptable to G_d, and familiarize yourself with what is considered acceptable to him. See what they tithe, and ask yourself if it is possible to tithe the way that Israel was commanded to tithe. Yeshua is our offering, but I am talking about the tithe. Study for yourselves what titheing means. And if you want to tithe in an acceptable way, look at what you will have to do. Then ask yourself, “Can I do that?” Not in this current system, and it was set up that way, so that your tithes would be defiled. The Sabbath is changed to Sunday by the evil one so that you may never enter into Yeshua’s rest. It was done so that you may unknowingly defile the Sabbath. The Sabbath was made for man to rest, and the evil one does not want anyone to obey or rest.
I will stop there, for now.
You’re welcome, ever heard of humility?Phil 2:3
Even tho you don’t respond to me if only out of sheer courtesy, (like that’s Christlike), The fact that we will meet Him in heaven does not mean EVERYONE will go, ONLY those who believe in HIM and live by HIS word. IT is not, in my opninion, a get out of jail free card. Though some may see it that way, I don’t. When in the end the LORD will finally come, eveyone will know, the trumpets will resound and He shall ride the horse and bring fire and He will then be ready for battle. We are now, and always will be accountable for every little thing that we do or don’t do, everything we SAY, and how we say it, how and WHO we worship and even what we think. If you attack EVERYONE in general it makes it seem YOU alone have all the answers. I was trying to see the good in what you do, as we all must in each other as the bible states, but you choose rather to attack again. All I can say is, God be with you.
Yoli, I have been speaking to you and to others. I am sorry if in your conscience that you percieve my words as an attack. I would never engage anyone in a battle, but just as others have work to do for the L_rd, so do I. Each person has a different work with in messiah’s body, mine, is to call all to live a holy life. I have never met you, nor have I ever seen you before, so any attack that you may think I am waging against you personally would be totally out of character of me, who you have never seen or known before recently. I have never called you any names, nor have I accused you of anything. I have however lifted up the name of my L_rd, and given glory to him. Only you and G_d knows your heart, and out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth does speak. I do not have any answers, that is why I look always to the Living G_d, for he knows the end from the beginning.
The most difficult thing about corresponding in writing is that it does not give tone to hear or eyes to look into. In this, I can say that depending on a persons disposition, and the mood they are in, they can read something that is written in love, and take it as an insult, and something that is written as an insult, and think that it was written in love. These perceptions are often filtered through feelings, and a person can make judgements based on them. So if a person feels rejected, unheard, or has a low sense of self, they may feel attacked, and if a person feels they are always right and that is it, they will project that on another. Wouldn’t you agree? A common theme that you address me with, is that I don’t know your heart. Your are right, but I never said that I did. I know that if you dwell with G_d and have him in your heart, then isn’t G_d in your heart also? And if G_d is in your heart, and I glorify him who lives for ever and I seek to love him, wouldn’t I be speaking to your heart? We have the highest honor of having the Holy Spirit living with in us, and if I choose to bless him and uplift him and his holy name, that should not offend you…it should instead witness to your heart because he that dwells in me, also dwells within you. I speak honor to the Holy Spirit, and bless him that dwells within you. You accepted him, and understand that one day you will be in heaven with him, but he is also here now with us…G_d with us. My words are words of faith. They are not only for the edification of the body of Christ, but also to lift up a holy G_d. The scriptures say that “Deep calls to Deep”, and in this way the Spirit of G_d within me witnesses to the Spirit of G_d with in you.
I have Gods full armor of protection on me my friend, that includes the helmet of salvation and therefor my conscience does not perceive anything that is not for HIM. You once again prove the point I make, I don’t know you, nor you I; or anyone else you try to help out, but the manner in which you speak with the endless barrage of words, can be a form of attack to others. I only react to actual facts, my eyes may be dim but not so that I can’t SEE what and how you write, that is NOT perception, it is factual. And when I directed a positive comment to you personally, common sense dictates there usually be a response, that is why I said what I did. Not, because I feel rejected, (another attack), I would be a liar as a Christian if indeed I were to make that claim. He knew we could never be holy after we first sinned, but He is not going to ask us to be sorta holy, so He asked for the best in us, knowing it would never be good enough, thats why God sent HIS son to die for our UNholiness. You concentrate on trying to be holy, but I believe HE concentrates more on the soul of man so that they may have eternal life, and thats how I choose to live my life.
We can just agree to disagree in thought, and leave it at that. Daily I ask for His guidance and to kill the deeds of the (my) flesh so that I can live the best life I can, and when I mess up, I ask for forgiveness and try to do better. That my friend, is what happens when we live in these fleshly bodies and will be until we receive our heavenly, sin free ones, praise GOD. Jehova is my Nissi, to Him be the glory…amen…
Hello everyone! I would like to say to all, but especially to EH that remember God is not the Arthor of confusion, but of peace which means He is not the cause of misunderstanding nor disorder 1Cort 14:33. The Bible says that it is FAITH that pleases God. We have to have faith that God is going to do and perform everything that He said He would in His word and even through His prophets because He said so which is in the Bible. Also the word of God does say that if at all possbile get along with your brethern, so thank God that He knew everyone wouldn’t get along, at the same time we have the ability to reason and that we should do.
As far as the comments about tithing… the word of God says, you reap what you sow. If you sow money, a smile, evil deeds, peace, love, and so on that you shall reap! I pay my tithes not just to get back, but out obedience to scripture and my way of sowing into God’s Kingdom to the less fortunate, people in church who are in financial need, and so on. Once I give I no longer worry about rather my Pastor is not doing the proper things with it because it is off my hands. In the Bible people gave even during the days of Jesus. Why are you EH so against putting money in the Kingdom of God? The bible says cast your bread upon the waters in Ecclesiastes. Also the lady (Mary) that washed Jesus feet with her pricely oil was her way of giving back to Jesus that was one of her seeds John 12:3. Also the Bible says, forsake not the assembly of like believers. You should also know that in Psalms37:1-2 it says evildoers will be soon cut down like the grass and wither as green herb. You don’t have to do the blasting (blasting all preachers who talk about the rapture) God will do the shifting and separting. We are vessels that God use to Praise and Worship Him and to begot sheep for Him. We don’t have to defend God He is God all by Himself. He is Alpha and Omega, He sits on the throne and sees and knows all, not man.
As far as EH saying that Jesus did not come to bring peace, but the sword. In John 10:10 Jesus said, He came that we might have life and that more abundantly. God is not against cars and house…come on this is a way of living. Of course these things do not define us, but they are gifts from God. Have you ever been homeless or w/ out transportation? If so I bet you thanked God for it! God is brillant beyond our imagination, He made it possible to have wealth and so on! Jesus was not a poor in wealth He had everything He needed and that is His desire for us to walk in abundance and to be whole! Read 3John 1:2!
As far as the rapture is concerned. Im like ‘Blessed’ when they said we are so caught up on the worthless things that we are getting steered away from why God came and is coming back. What difference does it make rather I say rapture or coming back quickly or caught up and changed in a twinkling of an eye? God has called the five fold ministry not a one man’s ministry. He said some apostles, teachers, preachers, evangelist, and prophets. If someone is preaching and or teaching against the true meaning of God and Jesus purpose the word of God says in Galatians 6:7 do not be decieved God is not mocked for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap! If you are sowing false doctrine God will deal with them. God speaks of rebuke and that He will do. EH if what you are saying is true then you have already warned and the blood is off your hands (a figure of speech)! The word of God is simple enough for a child now you do your research and see where that is in the Bible. Jesus said my sheep know my voice. I challenge you to do as 1John 4:1 says, try the spirit by the Spirit! Let’s love as Jesus said and if we do that then people will see God in you and follow for God’s ultimate Glory… that’s what it’s all about… God’s Glory not ours.
P.S. Even the scriptures mention the mysteries of God. I hope that you have not studied so much of everything (books, bibles, online articles, etc) that it’s hard for you to really hear Gods voice and know whats Him and not Him. Stay prayerful everyone to one true and living God… In Jesus Name, AMEN!
We can deny the lamb by not following him. It is one of the reasons that Yeshua said that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of G_d.
I think that says all the peace that Yeshua came to bring. It divides whole families…money that is. If you truly believe that the abundant life that was promised to us is the abundance of things through titheing, then I would like to take you on a mini-journey through the life of King Solomon. He inherits a beautiful kingdom, established in righteousness, with it’s shares of ups and downs…asks for wisdom above all else, and not only does G_d give him wisdom, but blesses him with a massive empire…He gets older, aquires many, many wives (thank goodness for the money)and meets the Queen of the South, who has heard of his wisdom…After, he sends off the Queen of Sheba back to her home with so many gifts, (as much as she desired), G_d tells us what Solomon’s income was. I am not going to write it down. It is a part of the mystery that is unfolding…The scripture is
1 Kings 10:14
The scripture is so strange isn’t it? Doesn’t the yearly income seem alittle odd to you?
If you continue reading through the Kings and even through 1 and 2 Chronicles, we can get a better picture about Revelation.
Yeshua was clear about following him. About cars and all the goodies…I can tell you that there is actually a way to live faithful to Yeshua, the problem is that most people do not want to think, or be creative. They leave it up to the bull god to give them their food, clothing, homes, knowledge and everything else. Do you what to know what belongs to G_d? Everything that his hands had created. Him. Not man. He made the water, yet now we in many cases have to pay for that which should be free to all. There is a way to live apart from the bull god system, and not deny G_d, and we would all be the better for it. But would anyone go? Would anyone dare to follow the lamb? Would they leave family, hometown, and sell all that they have and give it to the poor? Sounds like a cult right? Where’s the cool aid? Praise Jesus and pass the AK 47! That is not what I am talking about. G_d in his infinate grace, can sustain us all as we figure out how to follow him and remain faithful to him. Where are the churches like in the book of Acts?
As far as what I read, I read the Word of the Living G_d. There are enough books in there to keep a person occupied for a lifetime, and then in all eternity. He will always show more of himself to those who seek him.
It is thrilling to know him. And to know and communicate with others. Whether you like me or not, I am your sister. We are a part of the family of believers, and it says to encourage each other in our most holy faith. I can not encourage another according to someone elses faith, I can only encourage you in my most holy faith. So if you would like to speak with me, lets move forward.
E H
I agree – mostly with your “Idolatry” point – yet …
A couple of things are wrong with your messages.
1. Why do you drop the “O” from LORD and GOD? I’ve known New-Agers who do that and they weirdo’s
2. His Name is Jesus not Yeshua (that is hebraic we are in the New Testament no longer in the OLD) And JEHOVAH – not Yahweh…
3. Sabbath was changed to the First day of the week by Jesus not the Roman Church. Jesus was raised from the grave on the first day of the week after completing His work – He RESTED (which is what Sabbath means – not seventh). READ Hebrews 4 carefully and see the corresponance of Christ’s work of RE-creation to the Creation in Genisis 1. Paul concludes that there remains a Sabbath Rest for the people of God – the first day of the week. In collosions he orders that collections be made – “when they gather together on the first day of the week” -also in Galatians. That’s CHURCH!
4. Sabbath was never Saturday – but ONE Day in SEVEN. The Hebrew calender was 360 days so the 5 day gap was compensated every year. The first day of the year began the weeks and the sabbath appeared on a different day each year.
5. The Roman Church (or any other church) has no authority to declare a sabbath day – only Jesus does. And He did that by His Ressurrection. The Apostles followed that from His example of showing Himself only on the first day.
6. Where in the NEW Tesament is the prophesy regarding Israel becoming a nation again? NOWHERE> everyone who belives in this must resort to OLD Testament texts – out of historical context – and obscure. THERE IS NO NEW TEStAMENT EXPECTATION OF A NEW National ISRAEL!!!
7. Likewise the Rapture is the Resurrection and that happens only ONCE – at the end. 1Cor 15:22-26
Oh Boy…
I should have read your last message more carefully…
“Whether you like me or not, I am your sister.”
You’re a woman???
According to 1Cor 14:34, 35…
“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”
Where is your husband – and why is he not watching over you and teaching you sound doctrine? It’s obvious you have gone astray unnecessarily by not submitting to your husband.
Unless you aren’t married? in that case take Paul’s exhortation seriously …
“I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
For some are already turned aside after Satan.” 1Tim 5:14, 15
Go home to your husband…
Dear lovely recon,
Is your hope that I should cry? Keep on “to con again”, your name is very fitting!
What offends you more…the fact that I am a woman, or that you can’t seem to get what I am talking about? Have fun with your remarks, they reveal a great deal about you my friend.
We are all different…
ooops…I forgot, you don’t talk to women, they are all inferior to you!
My mistake…
I will make sure the next time you come on a board that I do not address you.
Enjoy the view from where you are, take it all in because you never know what tomorrow will bring.
😉
EH
actually recon is short for reconstruction.
I have no problem that you are a woman.
My point is you are led astray in your doctrine. and that it’s most likely that you are not learning from your husband as you should.
Do you think the scriptures I quoted are merely my opinion?
How do YOU interpret these – if you believe they don’t apply to you?
Have you nothing to say to the above points?
I am curious as to why you drop the “o”?
As well as the other points…
Dropping the “o” is a small matter of liberty that I have, and choose to use it for those of my brothers and sisters who are jewish and unsaved. It is a matter of respect that I have for those who still follow Torah and may be out there searching for the truth of Yeshua, Jesus my Messiah.
As far as the establishment of Israel goes, It was always there in it’s place, and Jerusalem has always been Jerusalem. There was NEVER any reason for anyone to go and remove the people of the land, to take it for “Jewish” people. I am not in agreement with Zionism, and I believe that the land belongs to G_d. Not us.
As far as your idea of the Old Testament being “Old”, or any of your other many ideas about the Sabbath, or even women, you will need a little help from a pastor, or maybe even a Messianic rabbi, to understand what I am talking about. Why would you ask a woman to explain? Wouldn’t you in doing so, be going against the very scriptures that you admonished me with? Or do you believe that I could actually tell you something scriptural? I will not explain these things to you, because quite frankly, you already know all you need to know…so if you believe me wrong, then why would you want me to explain? You can rest in the assurance of your own knowledge.
As far as the scriptures about women preaching…
What makes you think that I am a preacher? Or that I am at church right now? Do you believe that these webblogs are church?
As far as going home is concerned…I am at home. That is where I type and communicate from. So should I leave my home, because if you are on line right now, technically you are actually in my home, aren’t you? It is a home that my husband and I dwell in, so in essence, you have insulted another man’s wife in his own home.
If as you say, that I am mis-lead, then surely you must know that I am not a preacher. So what is your point?
The only question I shall ask my husband is whether he thinks that you are one of the many
neo-nazi skin heads, and whether you are a member of the Pink Swatzka…and I will be sure to ask him also if I have spelled the word right.
You have said that your name is short for “reconstruction”, I think that your name is even more telling. I like that. You reveal more about yourself everytime you speak.
🙂
I didn’t mean to put a burr under yer saddle, li’l lady.
Neo-nazi?
I’m not sure where that came from… perhaps because I don’t believe the Jews have any special place or covenant with GOD since AD 70???
…That they must come to Jesus Christ just like all the gentiles? That they have made themselves gentiles by rejecting their own GOD?
As for “Messianic rabbis” – why? Why would they seperate and call themselves by that? Are they continuing in the traditions of Moses? Then are they Judaisers that are clearly condemned by the Apostles: (See Gal 2:11-21 & 4:9-11)
If you believe they are still GOD’s covenant people, then you are assuming that I am “anti-semetic”?
And what, pray tell, is more telling about my screen name?
What is it you are assuming?
Sir,
There are no burrs, it just depends on your ego in thinking you have in anyway upset me. It is so interesting that you ask me to answer your questions, and when I do, you think you have me “peeved.” 😉
And no, I am not implying you are an anti-semite. Your words are posted, and I can compare them to any words that I can get off a neo-nazi website. Thats all. That shouldn’t offend you because you believe you are right and I am wrong. But if you are not a neo-nazi, check out their “spiritual” websites sometime.
One thing though that I think you fail to realize; there are different cultures of people, and a messianic rabbi has the ability to reach out to those who are jewish. It is not about making distinctions spiritually. But just as missionary should have full knowledge of a the land and people, being able to communicate with them in a way that they can understand, so the same goes for jewish people. I am jewish, and although in messiah there is no jew or gentile, the unsaved are not aware of this and have made that distinction.
As far as your name goes, I do not have to assume anything, your words are true to your name.
You are correct in as far as the missionary approach.
…Yet once a person is reached for Christ wouldn’t they forsake idols of their traditions? No longer observing the sabbaths, new moons, or festivals of Judah, since those were a mere foreshadow of the reality which is in Christ? (see the book of Hebrews) We do not continue to sacrifice a lamb for our sins since the true Lamb of God has come … it is now idolatry to do so.
Thus it is with the Sabbath – Christ was resurrected on the first day; and appeared to His Church on the first day; and the Church began to worship on that day in honor of His resurrection. Hebrews 4 points out that Christ labored (as the Great High Priest) and then RESTED on the First day. Just as He did when He created the world in Genisis 2:2 and blessed the seventh day. From the Fall to Christ we were to work first and then rest. From Christ we enter His rest first then work. In the New Creation we enter into His rest and then work to His Glory the other six days.
Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
Heb 4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.
As far as the name, you seem to be reading something into it that I never intended or that you misunderstand.
It refers to reconstructing the Christian culture in the world. As it used to be that western culture was often referred to as “Christendom” – Christ’s Kingdom. (That is Reformed not Roman Popery) In the last 150-something years our once Christian institutions and culture have been usurped by atheists and evolutionists. These rightfully belong to Christ. (Matt 28:18, Psalm 2 ,and Psalm 110, 1Cor 15:22-26) Thus Reconstruction means restoring the Crown Rights of King Jesus – as the Scottish Covenanters did in their day…
thirdly…
I am perplexed that you deny the accusation of anti-semite yet continue to refer to what I’ve said as “neo-nazi”…
It is beginning to seem like the liberalist tactic of labeling someone a racist if that person wants to protect the borders of his own nation. It only serves to shut down dialogue or dissent… it was the tactic of the Nazi’s and brown-shirts in Germany against the Jews and any sympathizers.
Im sorry I have to disagree about many Jews and sympathizers. Jews created communism, and there were many jews who supported the extermination of their own kind. This is evidenced in the banks that were at the time, (and still are) owned by jewish men, and provided money for the German cause. I am not in agreement with this kind of action.
As far as the Sabbath goes, Yeshua gave up his life and rested on the Sabbath, and the Holy Spirit did not raise him from the day till the first day of the week. I wonder why?
It was before sundown on the sabbath, that the disciples took him down to prepare to bury him according to law. Yeshua did not break this law, for it was G_d’s law, not mans. You seem to think that there is no distinction between the Mosaic law and G_d’s law.
From a different post on the same subject:
stevoyo Says:
October 28th, 2007 at 7:01 am
I have found this discussion to be very interesting. And while I am not in opposition to exposing false teachings, I was very disturbed by the misleading statement “Jesus Christ is your Sabbath Rest” in post #11.
I can’t help but wonder how long many in the Christian world will continue to find a reason to break the Law of God by doing surgery to the 10 commandments and removing the fourth commandment to group it with the law of Moses in order to declare it has been done away with! To state that Hebrews says that Jesus supplants the 4th commandment Sabbath is horribly misleading and such a declaration cannot stand up to any serious scriptural scrutiny.
This faulty reasoning is somehow deducted from Hebrews 3 and 4. But careful reading of this passage excludes any conclusion that the author was attempting to supplant the 4th commandment Sabbath with the reality found in Christ, for indeed the Word of God in its entirety shows no contradiction or competition between the two. The author of Hebrews plainly, clearly, unmistakably is trying to explain that the Rest he is describing was available to both the Old Covenant Jews and to New Covenant Christians, “For the Gospel was preached unto them as well as unto us” Heb 4:2. A simple study on topic reveals the rest of this Gospel is distinct from the 4th commandment Sabbath. This Gospel rest in discussion was first promised in Deuteronomy 12:8,9. “Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes. For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the Lord your God giveth you.” The rest God was offering Israel here was a dual rest 1: Rest from all their enemies round about (verse 10), 2: Rest from their own works, “doing whatsoever is right in his own eyes” (verse 8). Under Joshua Israel attained to the rest in the first sense here described (rest from their enemies) by the power of God (Jos 21:44, 22:4). But as the author of Hebrews is describing, Israel failed to enter in the God’s rest in the second sense, for in Joshua’s time some in the camp had strange gods (Joshua 24:23), and after Joshua and the elders died, the people refused to serve the Lord any longer and turned to Baalim (Judges 2:7-13). Finally Judges 17:6 and Judges 21:25 declare that once again “every man did that which was right in his own eyes”. “For if Joshua had given them rest, then would He not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into His rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from His” Heb 4:8-10. Notice that the author very plainly states that there “remains… a rest” signifying that this rest that he was describing to the early Christian church is not a new rest but rather an old one, but those to whom it was first offered “could not enter [into it] because of unbelief” Heb 3:19. The seventh-day Sabbath described in verse 4 in the forth chapter of Hebrews is being employed to help the readers understand the Gospel rest. As God ceased from His works on the 7th day because He found rest in His relationship with mankind, so we are to cease from our dead works and find rest in the relationship we find in Christ through His Gospel. Though the gospel came to the Israelites in a different form the result was to be same in both Old and New Covenants… circumcision of the Heart (Deut 10:16, Rom 2:29), resting from evil works to serve the living God and keep His commandments. “For the hearers of the law are not just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified” Romans 2:13. Paul speaking of this rest in his personal life declares, “I am crucified with Christ; nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself fore me.” Galatians 2:20.
Now I would ask, “did God make a mistake by grouping the Sabbath commandment with, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not Steal, Thou shalt have no other gods before Me?” Is it insignificant that God spoke 10 commandments and wrote them in immutable stone with His own finger and placed them within the Ark, while Moses spoke to Israel the Ceremonial and Civil laws, and wrote them down himself on perishable parchment and placed them without the Ark of the covenant? How long will it be convenient for us to despise teachings of Christ who taught early Christians to value the Sabbath by praying that their flight from the besieged Jerusalem in 70 AD would not occur on the Sabbath, “Pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day”(Matthew 24:20)? How long should we ignore the example of Christ, the apostles, and the early church in hallowing God’s sanctified rest day (Luke 4:16, Acts 16:13, Acts 17:2, Acts 13:42)? Behold Christ visiting the Apostle John who was keeping the Sabbath on the Isle of Patmos, “I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice…” (Rev 1:10). Some claim that this citation of the “Lord’s day” here is referring to Sunday, but there is not one single passage in all of Scripture to support this claim, while there is a ton of verses that confirm that this “Lord’s day” is undoubtedly the 4th commandment Sabbath (Exodus 16:23, 20:10; Isaiah 58:13; Mark 2:28, to name a few).
Beloved, There is a difference between the Ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and God’s 10 commandment law. Notice the dichotomy in the Apostle Paul’s mind, “Circumcision is nothing, an uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.” (1 Cor 7:19). This dichotomy between the two laws (one temporal one eternal) dwelt in the mind of Christ and the Jews in Jesus’ day. Debating with the Pharisees on Sabbath observance in John 7:22 – 24, Jesus explains that since the Jews who sometimes broke God’s 4th commandment by circumcising a boy on the Sabbath in order “that the law of Moses should not be broken” and yet did not consider it a crime, how much more should He be able to heal and do good works on the Sabbath without being condemned. The strength of Christ’s point here is that both He and the Jews agreed that the law of Moses was separate and distinct from the law of God, and that doing good works is further from breaking the Sabbath commandment than circumcising a boy on the Sabbath in order to uphold the lesser temporal law of Moses.
In conclusion I cite the warning of Christ from the mount of blessing, “Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:19). Let us indeed rest from our own works and from doing what is right in our own eyes and follow the teachings of Christ.
Agreed – I am constantly alarmed at the disregard for the LORD’s Day on the oart of so many Christians today. They make no distinction – it is like any other day to them.
We agree – – -except as to the day:
The Shorter Catechism, Question 59
Q59: Which day of the seven hath God appointed to be the weekly Sabbath?
A59: From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, God appointed the seventh day of the week to be the weekly Sabbath;[1] and the first day of the week ever since, to continue to the end of the world, which is the Christian Sabbath.[2]
1. Gen. 2:3
2. Acts 20:7; Rev. 1:10
The Larger Catechism, Question 116
Q116: What is required in the fourth commandment?
A116: The fourth commandment requires of all men the sanctifying or keeping holy to God such set times as he hath appointed in his word, expressly one whole day in seven; which was the seventh from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, and the first day of the week ever since, and so to continue to the end of the world; which is the Christian sabbath,[1] and in the New Testament called The Lord’s day.[2]
1. Deut. 5:12, 14, 18; Gen. 2:2-3; I Cor. 16:1-2; Acts 20:7; Matt. 5:17-18; Isa. 56:2, 4, 6-7
2. Rev. 1:10
“You seem to think that there is no distinction between the Mosaic law and G_d’s law.”
Only in the sacrificial and boundary laws (land laws etc. to seperate Jews from gentiles) – which were fulfilled by Jesus. And yes – His burial was in obedience to the Law. BUT His rest was the resurrection – as is ours. Therefore the New Covenant Sabbath is Resurrection Day…
Why do you keep making these distinctions?
If you and I both believe that we are one in Jesus and that there is not a separation what is the problem?
Boundary laws? There are no boundary laws, because all the boundary belong to the Lord! The land belongs to him, and no one has a right to “lay claim” to it.
All 10 commandments continue because they are “creation ordinances” – they apply to all people – everywhere.
The only distinction we seem to have is…
Only the Day in the 4th commandment has been changed – by the Lord of the Sabbath, Himself.
That’s all…
The Sabbath and the Council of Trent The Christian day of worship
It was upon this (Sabbath) very point that the Reformation was condemned by the Council of Trent. The Reformers had constantly charged, as here stated, that the Catholic Church had “apostatized from the truth as contained in the written word. “The written word,” “The Bible and the Bible only,
“The Protestants claim to stand upon the written word only. They profess to hold the Scripture alone as the standard of faith. They justify their revolt by the plea that the Church has apostatized from the written word and follows tradition. Now the Protestants claim, that they stand upon the written word only, is not true. Their profession of holding the Scripture alone as the standard of faith, is false. PROOF: The written word explicitly enjoins the observance of the seventh day as the Sabbath. They do not observe the seventh day, but reject it. If they do truly hold the scripture alone as their standard, they would be observing the seventh day as is enjoined in the Scripture throughout. Yet they not only reject the observance of the Sabbath enjoined in the written word, but they have adopted and do practice the observance of Sunday, for which they have only the tradition of the Church. Consequently the claim of ‘Scripture alone as the standard,’ fails; and the doctrine of ‘Scripture and tradition’ as essential, is fully established, the Protestants themselves being judges.”
Archbishop Reggio of Calabra made his speech at the last opening session of Trent, on the 18th of January, 1562. — Heinrich Julius Holzmann, Kanon und Tradition (Canon and Tradition), published in Ludwigsburg, Germany, in 1859, page 263.
There was no getting around this, for the Protestants’ own statement of faith — the Augsburg Confession, 1530 — had clearly admitted that “the observation of the Lord’s day” had been appointed by “the Church” only.
The argument was hailed in the Council as of Inspiration only; the party for “Scripture alone,” surrendered; and the council at once unanimously condemned Protestantism and the whole Reformation as only an unwarranted revolt from the communion and authority of the Catholic Church; and proceeded, April 8, 1546, “to the promulgation of two decrees, the first of which, enacts under anathema, that Scripture and tradition are to be received and venerated equally, and that the deutero-canonical [the apocryphal] books are part of the canon of Scripture. The second decree declares the Vulgate to be the sole authentic and standard Latin version, and gives it such authority as to supersede the original texts; forbids the interpretation of Scripture contrary to the sense received by the Church, ‘or even contrary to the unanimous consent of the Fathers,'” etc.
This was the inconsistency of the Protestant practice with the Protestant profession that gave to the Catholic Church her long-sought and anxiously desired ground upon which to condemn Protestantism and the whole Reformation movement as only a selfishly ambitious rebellion against the Church authority. And in this vital controversy the key, the chiefest and culminative expression, of the Protestant inconsistency was in the rejection of the Sabbath of the Lord, the seventh day, enjoined in the Scriptures, and the adoption and observance of the Sunday as enjoined by the Catholic Church.
And this is today the position of the respective parties to this controversy. Today, as this document shows, this is the vital issue upon which the Catholic Church arraigns Protestantism, and upon which she condemns the course of popular Protestantism as being “indefensible”, self-contradictory, and suicidal.” What will these Protestants, what will this Protestantism, do? Sunday = tradition and Baal worship vs. Sabbath = Creator worship
Beautifully said Joel…
Here is one more little interesting thing about changing the day of the Sabbath.
If you write down in consectutive order each of the seven days that the L_rd made, then move the Sabbath to Sunday (First day) what day would the seventh fall on?
It would fall on the day that G_d created man!
In essence it is man worship… keeps G_d never at rest, and is a way for the enemy to never let man enter the L_rd’s rest, because he would perpetually be breaking the 4th commandment of G_d, and trampling on the blood, that Yeshua so freely gave for these matters. Yeshua proved that he entered that rest, and we are to strive to enter his rest as well. It is not being a judiser, it is a responsiblity, as we are co-heirs with Christ. He raised Yeshua from the dead through the power of the Holy Spirit on the first day of the week in accordance with the consecutive order of creation. ‘And God said, “Let there be light”, and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day”, and the darkness he called “night”. And there was evening and there was morning the first day.’
This too is very important because Yeshua is our light. The L_rd does not go against his own character, and for this reason, it is very important to understand and read the whole word of G_d, not just the New Testament. The Old Testament gives us a beautiful understanding of our L_rds love and concern for his creation, which doesn’t leave us hanging at the end of Malachi. The New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament…but that does not mean that because it we have this new covenant, that we should forsake the old. It is there not for salvation, but for wisdom, understanding and for knowing even better, the heart of G_d, who loved us so much that he sent his Son. It honors his Son, Yeshua, because he came to do the will of his Father. Beyond all else, even though he loved his creation, he loved his Father more! It was so that his Father could once again have fellowship with us, not the other way around. He died for us, but he did it for his Father. It was G_d first, then man. That was his good pleasure. And since he longed for his Father to once again be reconciled to us, he was willing to lay down his life, and become separated from his Father, and this is the love that he had for us. So we must honor not only the Son, but also the Father.
The Council of Trent on the Change to Sunday Worship
1443. Sabbath, Change of, Cited as Proof That Tradition Is Above Scripture
Source: Gaspare [Ricciulli] de Fosso (Archbishop of Reggio), Address in the 17th session of the Council of Trent, Jan. 18, 1562, in Mansi SC, Vol. 33, cols. 529, 530. Latin. [ Gian Domenico Mansi, ”Sacrorum Conciliorum nova et amplissima collectio”]
[col. 529] Such is the condition of the heretics of this age that on nothing do they rely more than that, under the pretense of the word of God, they overthrow the authority of the church; as though the church, His body, could be opposed to the word of Christ, or the head to the body. On the contrary, the authority of the church, then, is illustrated most clearly by the Scriptures; for while on the one hand she recommends them, declares them to be divine, [col. 530] offers them to us to be read, in doubtful matters explains them faithfully, and condemns whatever is contrary to them; on the other hand, the legal precepts in the Scriptures taught by the Lord have ceased by virtue of the same authority. The Sabbath, the most glorious day in the law, has been changed into the Lord’s day. Circumcision, enjoined upon Abraham and his seed under such threatening that he who had not been circumcised would be destroyed from among his people, has been so abrogated that the apostle asserts: “If ye be circumcised, ye have fallen from grace, and Christ shall profit you nothing.” These and other similar matters have not ceased by virtue of Christ’s teaching (for He says He has come to fulfill the law, not to destroy it), but they have been changed by the authority of the church. Indeed, if she should be removed (since there must be heresies), who would set forth truth, and confound the obstinacy of heretics? All things will be confused, and soon heresies condemned by her authority will spring up again. [See No. 1444.]
1444. Sabbath, Change of—Cited in Council of Trent as Proof that Tradition Is Above Scripture
Source: Heinrich Julius Holtzmann, Kanon und Tradition (“Canon and Tradition”) (Ludwigsburg: Druck and Verlag von Ferd. Riehm, 1859), p. 263. German. [FRS No. 72.] [Facsimile (in the original German) below.]
The Council [of Trent] agreed fully with Ambrosius Pelargus, that under no condition should the Protestants be allowed to triumph by saying that the council had condemned the doctrine of the ancient church. But this practice caused untold difficulty without being able to guarantee certainty. For this business, indeed, ‘well-nigh divine prudence’ was requisite—which the Spanish ambassador acknowledged as belonging to the council on the sixteenth of March, 1562. Indeed, thus far they had not been able to orient themselves to the interchanging, crisscrossing, labyrinthine, twisting passages of an older and newer concept of tradition. But even in this they were to succeed. Finally, at the last opening [see editors’ note] on the eighteenth of January, 1562, all hesitation was set aside: [Gaspar de Fosso] the Archbishop of Reggio made a speech [see No. 1443] in which he openly declared that tradition stood above Scripture. The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the church had changed circumcision into baptism, Sabbath into Sunday, not by the command of Christ, but by its own authority. With this, to be sure, the last illusion was destroyed, and it was declared that tradition does not signify antiquity, but continual inspiration.
joeland
You seem to possess a fondness for the council of trent….
Nothing the Roman whore says in the council of trent carries any weight of truth. The Pope has been anti-Christ from the beginning to this day.
You have admitted so : “Sunday = tradition and Baal worship vs. Sabbath = Creator worship”… YOU may rest on sunday because of YOUR council of trent.
I rest on the Lord’s Day (first day of the week) because the Bible teaches it so.:
I have cited above the scriptures that clearly teach that Jesus and the Apostles met for worship and the Lord’s Supper on the FIRST Day of the week.
Read them for yourself.:
Acts 20:7
WHY were they gathering on the first day? – “to break bread” (Lord’s Supper); Paul preached until midnight (the end of the day is midnight);
1Cor 16:2;
Paul tells the Corinthians to lay up collections for the poor…
All these are what goes on in Church (NT) or Synogogue (OT).
Further …
“There is no evidence that the Sabbath held from Adam to Joseph, fell on a Saturday; and still less that it fell on a Saturday before the fall…. Moreover, it is quite possible that the sevenfold cycle was disrupted at least once more during the Jews’ slavery in Egypt between the time of Joseph and the reinstitution of the Sabbath in the time of Moses (Ex. 1-16). But even from the time of Moses onward, although the days have thenceforth (as previously) devolved in unbroken succession, they have not all been uniformly twenty-four hours each in duration. At least two such days were very considerably longer, namely Joshua’s long day (Josh. 10:13) and the day when Hezekiah’s sundial moved back fifteen degrees (Is. 38:8). It is, however, unquestionable that the Sabbath fell on Saturday in the days of Christ’s earthly life” (Lee, p. 343).
Cf. R.J. Rushdoony, Institutes of Biblical Law.
EH
Let’s see:
S M T W T F S
7 1 2 3 4 5 6
So YOUR saturday sabbath would be the sixth day.
Or is it…
S M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
BUT what does that prove anyway?
You seem to equate Christ’s lying in the tomb one the Sabbath as His rest…
Consider :
Those who attempt to find a Sabbath rest for Christ in His lying in the tomb under the power of death fail to note the following points: (1) that death is an aspect of the curse; thus, death for Christ was an aspect of His humiliation and not His victory; (2) that Sabbath rest in Scripture is a rest from creative work and re-creative work, and Christ’s re-creative work was not complete or accomplished until He walked out of the tomb; (3) that biblical Sabbath rest is not a cessation of all activity or the resting of a corpse but is an active celebratory rest, a rest involving conscious worshipful reflection; (4) that the Sabbath rest and entering into salvation are compared in Scripture; therefore, the Sabbath rest could not begin until the achievement of salvation was completed by Christ (this occurred when He rose from the dead).
“The abolition of the Jewish Sabbath seems to be intimated by this, that Christ, the Lord of the Sabbath, lay buried on that day. Christ, the author of the world, was the Author of that work of creation of which the Jewish Sabbath was the memorial. It was He that worked six days and rested the seventh day from all His works, and was refreshed. Yet He was holden in the chains of death on that day. God, who created the world, now in His second work of creation, did not follow His own example, if I may so speak; He remained imprisoned in the grave on that day, and took another day to rest in”
(Jonathan Edwards ,“The Perpetuity and Change of the Sabbath” 2:99 in Works (Carlisle, PA: Banner of Truth, 1974 [1834]).
recon,
As I have said before, you know all you need to know, and you can rest in that assurance. You do not have to try to teach me anything, or correct what you think is an error, because, remember, that is my husbands job. He and I are in agreement with what I have already written, and since I am subject to my husband and obey him, I can not accept what you say as true. You wouldn’t be trying to usurp the authority that my husband has as head over me would you?
If you are married, then teach these things to your own wife, I am spoken for.
Blessings in Yeshua.
Question
I would like to know if this is true that the church claims it is above the bible?
The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact. Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third – Protestant Fourth – Commandment of God. As the Rev. Mr. Smith rightly points out: “The Jewish Sabbath is not Sunday, the Lord’s Day. Christians are all wrong in speaking of the Sabbath as Sunday.” The Christians who so speak are “Bible Christians,” those who make the Bible the sole rule of Faith; and the Bible is silent on Sunday observance, it speaks only of Sabbath observance.” Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.
It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.” Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903. See This Rock
“Protestants … accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change… But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that … in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope.” Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950. See This Rock
“Of course these two old quotations are exactly correct. The Catholic Church designated Sunday as the day for corporate worship and gets full credit – or blame – for the change.” This Rock, The Magazine of Catholic Apologetics and Evangelization, p.8, June 1997
Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” -Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50
Q. Must not a sensible Protestant doubt seriously, when he finds that even the Bible is not followed as a rule by his co-religionists?
A. Surely, when he sees them baptize infants, abrogate the Jewish Sabbath, and observe Sunday for which [pg. 7] there is no Scriptural authority; when he finds them neglect to wash one another’s feet, which is expressly commanded, and eat blood and things strangled, which are expressly prohibited in Scripture. He must doubt, if he think at all. …
Q. Should not the Protestant doubt when he finds that he himself holds tradition as a guide?
A. Yes, if he would but reflect that he has nothing but Catholic Tradition for keeping the Sunday holy; … Controversial Catechism by Stephen Keenan, New Edition, revised by Rev. George Cormack, published in London by Burns & Oates, Limited – New York, Cincinnati, Chicago: Benzinger Brothers, 1896, pages 6, 7.
“The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord’s Day. The Council of Trent (Sess. VI, can. xix) condemns those who deny that the Ten Commandments are binding on Christians.” The Catholic Encyclopedia, Commandments of God, Volume IV, © 1908 by Robert Appleton Company, Online Edition © 1999 by Kevin Knight, Nihil Obstat – Remy Lafort, Censor Imprimatur – +John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York, page 153.
”The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant.” The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.
you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.” The Faith of Our Fathers, by James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, 88th edition, page 89. Originally published in 1876, republished and Copyright 1980 by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., pages 72-73.
Q. Which is the Sabbath day? A. Saturday is the Sabbath day. Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday (The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, by Peter Geiermann, 1946, p. 50).
The Catholic Church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday (The Christian Sabbath, p. 29. Printed by The Catholic Mirror, the official organ of Cardinal Gibbons, Baltimore, Md., 1893).
The Pope is of so great authority and power that he can modify, change, or interpret even divine laws (Farraris’s Ecclesiastical Dictionary. Article, “The Pope”).
Of course the change [from Sabbath to Sunday] was her act . . . and the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters (Signed by H. F. Thomas, Chancellor for Cardinal Gibbons, in a letter dated, Nov. 11, 1895).
Thus, the Catholic Church claims the pope has power to change God’s law, just as Daniel 7:25 says. This church claims to have changed the Sabbath into Sunday, which is a changing of “times,” just as Daniel 7:25 says will occur. And papal Rome also calls this change a “mark” of her authority, which makes this a perfect fit with Revelation 13!
1. Jesus Christ rose on Sunday, “the first day of the week” (Mark 16:9).
2. The New Testament refers to “the first day of the week” eight times (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:1, 9; Luke 24:1; John 20:1, 19; 1 Corinthians 16:1; Acts 20:7).
3. Five of these references are about the Resurrection (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:1, 9; Luke 24:1; John 20:1).
4. One Sunday text refers to a fearful gathering of the disciples on that day before they knew Jesus was alive (John 20:19).
5. One Sunday text refers to a special collection of money on that day in the city of Corinth for a group of poor believers in Jerusalem (1 Corinthians 16:1-3; Romans 15:25, 26).
6. And one Sunday text refers to a solitary instance in Troas where believers gathered late one Saturday night as a farewell to Paul (Acts 20:6-13).
7. None of these references even remotely suggest that Sunday is now holy or that it has been set aside in honor of the Resurrection.
8. Jesus Christ never said a word about Sunday in any of His teachings.
9. Jesus Christ gave His church authority to teach only what He taught (Matthew 28:19), which forbids any emphasis on Sunday keeping.
10. The New Testament is as silent as a cemetery about any change from Sabbath to Sunday.
By way of contrast, here are ten key Sabbath facts found in your own Bible:
1. Jesus Christ kept the Sabbath (Luke 4:16).
2. Jesus taught much about the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-14).
3. Jesus said He is “Lord of the Sabbath,” thus revealing that it is His own special day in honor of the fact that He is the Creator of all life (Mark 2:28; Matthew 12:8).
4. Jesus often healed people on the Sabbath, revealing His love and power (Matthew 12:9-13).
5. Jesus freed the Sabbath from the burdensome traditions of the Pharisees (Luke 13:10-17).
6. The Sabbath was kept by Christ’s disciples after the Cross (Luke 23:46, 54-56).
7. The Sabbath was kept in the book of Acts by both Jews and Gentiles (Acts 13:42-44; 16:13; 17:1-4; 18:4).
8. The entire book of Revelation was given on the Lord’s,” day which is the Sabbath day (Revelation 1:10; Exodus 20:10; Isaiah 58:13; Matthew 12:8).
9. The Sabbath is not just for Jews, but is also for Gentiles (Isaiah 56:1-8).
10. The Sabbath will be kept in the new earth by all the saved (Isaiah 66:22, 23).
Joeland
Are you a 7th day Adventist , a Judaizer or a Papist?
I am just wondering…
The Church has no authority to set the Sabbath any more than to authorize the Scriptures. The scriptures determine the church…
You are mistaken in your analysis:
5. One Sunday text refers to a special collection of money on that day in the city of Corinth for a group of poor believers in Jerusalem
(1 Corinthians 16:1-3; Romans 15:25, 26).
WHY WOULD PAUL ORDER THIS BE DONE “INDEPENDENTLY” OF THEIR REGULAR WORSHIP? THE GATHERING WAS ON THAT DAY & THAT IS WHY HE ORDERED COLLECTIONS – IT IS PART OF WORSHIP.
“10. The New Testament is as silent as a cemetery about any change from Sabbath to Sunday.”
Acts 20:7
-upon the first day of the week, when the disciples CAME TOGETHER TO BREAK BREAD, Paul PREACHED
– I GUESS YOU DON’T CONSIDER THE LORD’S SUPPER AND PREACHING EVIDENCE THAT IT WAS A WORSHIP DAY?
I Cor. 16:1-2;
… I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
PAUL ORDERED THE CHURCHES IN GALATIA AND CORINTH – TO TAKE COLLECTIONS WHEN THEY GATHER (ARE YOU ASSUMING THEY MADE A SPECIAL GATHERING JUST FOR OFFERINGS?)
Rev. 1:10 –
I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day…
JOHN GILL WRITES:
Not on the Jewish sabbath, which was now abolished, nor was that ever called the Lord’s day, and had John meant that, he would have said on the sabbath day; much less the Jewish passover, but the first day of the week is designed; so the Ethiopic version renders it “on the first day”; and is so called just as the ordinance of the supper is called the Lord’s supper, being instituted by the Lord, and the Lord’s table, (1 Corinthians 10:21) (11:20) , and that because it was the day in which our Lord rose from the dead, (Mark 16:9) ; and in which he appeared at different times to his disciples, (John 20:19,26) , and which the primitive churches set apart for his worship and service, and on which they met together to hear the word, and attend on ordinances, (Acts 20:7) (1 Corinthians 16:1) ; and Justin Martyr tells us, who lived within about fifty years after this time, that on the day called (Hebrew text), “Sunday”, (by the Greeks,) the Christians met together in one place, and read the Scriptures, and prayed together, and administered the ordinance of the supper; and this, he adds, was the first day in which God created the World, and our Saviour Jesus Christ rose from the dead; yea, Barnabas , the companion of the Apostle Paul, calls this day the eighth day, in distinction from the seventh day sabbath of the Jews, and which he says is the beginning of another world; and therefore we keep the eighth day, adds he, joyfully, in which Jesus rose from the dead, and being manifested, ascended unto heaven: and this day was known by the ancients by the name of “the Lord’s day”; as by Ignatius , Irenaeus , Tertullian , Origen , and others; for it must be some day that was known by this name, otherwise it is mentioned to no purpose, because it would not be distinctive from others; for which reason it cannot merely design the day in which John saw this vision, because the Lord appeared on it to him, for this would not distinguish it from any other day. Some have conjectured that this was not the weekly Lord’s day observed by the Christians, but the anniversary of Christ’s resurrection; and so the Ethiopians still call Easter “Schambatah Crostos”, the sabbath of Christ: to understand it of the former is best. Now, though John was driven from the house and worship of God, and could not join with the saints in the public worship of that day; yet he was employed in spiritual contemplations and exercises, and was under a more than ordinary influence of the Spirit of God; and his spirit or soul was wholly intent upon, and taken up with divine and spiritual things, with visions and representations that were made unto his mind, which he perceived in his spirit, and not with the organs of his body; he was in an ecstasy of spirit, and knew not scarcely whether he was in the body or out of it: ”
6. The Sabbath was kept by Christ’s disciples after the Cross
(Luke 23:46, 54-56).
YES I AGREE – HOWEVER UPON HIS RESURRECTION IT WAS CHANGED.
7. The Sabbath was kept in the book of Acts by both Jews and Gentiles
(Acts 13:42-44; 16:13; 17:1-4; 18:4).:
“they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews”
“the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath”
“And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures”
“And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.”
…WE SEE THEN THAT PAUL AND THE OTHERS WENT INTO THE SYNOGOGUES TO PREACH THE GOSPEL – NOT WORSHIP WITH THEM , FOR THEY (JEWS) WERE UNBELIEVERS…
8. The entire book of Revelation was given on the Lord’s,” day which is the Sabbath day
…SEE JOHN GILL ABOVE…
AND SO YOUR ARGUMENT IS NOT UPHELD BY SCRIPTURE.
Dear joeland,
About a month ago, I wrote you a note letting you know, that I would never adhere to your way of thinking with reguards to pre-rapture, that I believed more or less in the concept as stated in the left behind series, and that I would never change my mind. Well, I have! I am writing to let you know that. Often times we write in blogs either denouncing or agreeing with the topic, but I write to tell you I believe I mispoke and I admit it.
I am currently reading the Origin of Futurism and Preterism by rev. Charles Jennings, but conicidentally, (or devinely, to be more accurate), prior to hearing his message on tv, I had been watching the catholic channel, I check them all out as a learning tool, when suddenly all of the images of the rituals and idolitry they delve in jolted me to reality, wow, we do have it all wrong. I do believe now that the sign will not be numbers, but ashes that are even currently placed on the forhead or on the hand, as some opt to do. What Rev. Jennings spoke about makes much more sense than the timeline of the pre-rap sequence. It fits. And he also explained, biblically, how the word of God was twisted and manipulated to put the focus out of them (roman catholic and papal dynasty) as the anti christ movement, and more into a futeristic anti-christ as an individual person, and it was perpetuated by the jesuits Ribera and Bossuet and others. That is when the God head became man (the pope) through their own manipulation and elimination of Gods word which is also biblically prophesied and scriptually founded to be so.
I will continue to learn more and to inform others to be aware, and I thank you and just wanted to let you know that I admit when I am wrong. May God continue to bless you, yours, and your ministry..
In him…….Yoli
Comment by yoli — 5, 16, 2007 @ 10:42 am